A conversation with Linda Lautenberg and Judy Schoenberg, cofounders of EvolveMe. EvolveMe is a professional development company on a mission to advance women in midcareer.
Judy Schoenberg and Linda Lautenberg are co-founders of EvolveMe, a professional growth company providing individual and group coaching for women in midlife career transition using their proven DARE™ method of career reinvention. Their clients call their EvolveMe experience “life-changing” and “the best professional investment” they’ve ever made.
Linda and Judy each shared that, because of the messages they received about money when they were young, they were determined to be self sufficient right out of college. Linda went to business school and moved to Manhattan to work in finance, not because it was her passion but because that was where the money was. Similarly, Judy got a job and moved out of her parent's home a few months after college graduation.
They each shared their stories of reinvention. Linda took a long career break to raise her children. When her youngest child was getting ready to enter college she panicked; afraid that her absence from the workforce meant that she would never be able to find her way back to working full time. Judy, on the other hand, had a long career in leadership the non-profit sector, and knew that she had another chapter in her as she approached her late 40's. Both found themselves isolated; there didn't seem to be any user's manual or path forward for women reinventing in midlife.
They met in a program for women that were looking to return to the workforce, specifically in the social impact space. It was out of that program that Evolve Me was born. Linda and Judy realized that they were both drawn to the same mission: to build a community to help women return to the workforce as well as to help women drawn to career change in midlife.
"We do a lot of work around imposter syndrome and self doubt. And so much of that magic happens in community with other women, because if you can't own your own strengths and you can't own your own accomplishments, other women will see value in you and be able to speak that to you. It's a very powerful experience for many of the women." - Linda Lautenberg and Judy Schoenberg
Key takeaways
- Just because you’re good at something doesn’t mean that’s what you should do as a career. Linda shared that she received her MBA from Harvard Business School, passed the CFA exam and chose to go into finance in order to earn a living. But though she clearly had the skill set to excel, she wasn’t drawn to work with numbers.
- Believe that everything can be figured out. Linda learned, from being a stay-at-home mom juggling three kids that had to be 3 different places at the same time, that everything is going to be fine. It gave her the confidence that she’ll be able to figure anything out.
- If you can’t see it, you can’t be it. Judy believes in the importance of sharing the stories of different paths women have taken toward successful transitions. From working with hundreds of women, she recognizes how important it is to hear about other’s roadmaps when we embark on our own journeys.
- It’s important to always be learning new things.The world of work is always changing. Technology is always changing. There are always new skills to develop. Linda and Judy are finding in their new roles that there are endless opportunities to learn and grow, and define success by how much they are learning and growing as people.
About the guests:
Judy Schoenberg and Linda Lautenberg are co-founders of EvolveMe, a professional growth company providing individual and group coaching for women in midlife career transition using their proven DARE™ method of career reinvention. Their clients call their EvolveMe experience “life changing” and “the best professional investment” they’ve ever made. Through EvolveMe@Work, Judy and Linda also provide workshops, programming, and keynote addresses to companies invested in attracting and retaining top female talent. Judy holds a Masters in Education from Harvard University and a is former national executive for Girl Scouts of the USA. Linda earned an MBA from Harvard Business School and holds a Chartered Financial Analyst designation. Her earlier career was in real estate finance at Prudential and Nomura Securities.
Website:- https://evolveme.work
Linkedin:- www.linkedin.com/in/lindalautenberg
www.linkedin.com/in/judy-schoenberg
www.linkedin.com/company/evolveme-work
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/evolveme.work
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evolveme.work/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/evolveme_work
Email: linda@evolveme.work; judy@evolveme.work
Free resource: Get Going! Guide to Midlife Career Reinvention
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Judy Schoenberg
So we do a lot of work around imposter syndrome and self doubt. And so much of that magic happens in community with other women, because if you can't, you know, own your own strengths and you can't own your own accomplishments, other women will see value in you. And be able to speak that to you. And it's a very powerful experience for many of the women.
Narrator
Welcome to making change with your money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner,
Laura Rotter
So I am so excited to have as my guest today, Judy Schoenberg and Linda Lautenberg, the co founders of EvolveMe.
EvolveMe is a professional growth company providing individual and group coaching for women in midlife career transition, and their clients call the Evolve Me experience life changing and the best professional investment they've ever made. And through Evolve Me work, Judy and Linda also provide workshops, programming, and keynote addresses to companies invested in attracting and retaining top female talent.
So welcome both of you, Judy and Linda, to the Making Change with Your Money podcast.
Judy Schoenberg
Thanks so much for having us. We're so glad to be here.
Linda Lautenberg
Yes. Thanks, Laura. It's fun to have two guests.
Laura Rotter
So I'm going to start off this conversation the same way I start all my podcasts. And I'm going to ask you first, Linda, what was money like in your family growing up?
Linda Lautenberg
So my family growing up when I was little. Like four years old, my father passed away. And so my mom had two little girls, a four year old and a two year old, and, you know, she had gone to college, but this was back in the, what, I was born in 66. You know, so this is, you know, 1970, you know, she was planning to.
Work out of the house, right. And not have a career. So she moved us to Minnesota to be closer to her parents and to, and to my father's parents. And then she went to secretarial school and she got a job and, you know. My grandmother came to take care of us and she did what she needed to do to support her family.
You know, and she, she got remarried when she was, when I was in third grade. And, um, my dad was a police officer and my mom was excited to be able to step back and be with us at home again, because that's what she had originally intended to do, but I think that must've really made. Somehow it wasn't like I, like, suffered from want and I had a wonderful family and we weren't, you know, I think it just somehow plugged into my head all growing up that I needed to be able to provide for myself.
And so, when I went to college, I went with a view to I'm going to, you know. I went to a state school. That's what I could afford. Went to University of Minnesota. I'm like, I'm going to go to the business school because I need to get a job and I'm going to get some kind of a job that I'm going to be able to support myself no matter what.
And you know, that's how I think that's partly how I ended up going into finance. I took a job in Manhattan, went into finance. That was where the money was. I didn't really have, I can't say I had any burning desire to be doing deals. But it was really that, um, feeling that I needed to be able to take care of myself or take care of my family because you never know what's going to happen.
Laura Rotter
Wow. Thanks for sharing that, Linda. That is a powerful story. And also it's so true how our parents don't need to tell us a story about money. We grow up watching what happens. And our history, to a certain extent, till we're older, dictates the choices we make. And so it's very clear that your mother didn't have to say anything.There was a very clear message that you took away. Judy, same question for you. What was money like in your family?
Judy Schoenberg
I was thinking it could be the same question. So I had the advantage of having a little bit of time to get the wheels turning. So yeah, it feels like full transparency, like a little bit of a loaded question for me right now.
Um, I have both my parents, um, have always been like the most vibrant parents ever and are now going through a little bit of a rocky patch, um, with their health. So, um, money is a topic that is very top of mind as we, you know, look at, Options, you know, health care options for them, but it but it has gotten me thinking a lot about how I grew up and and what my relationship with my family's relationship was with money.
And I think that it also, uh, kind of goes back. It's funny. I mean, Linda and I've discussed this, but not extensively. But it also goes back to a trauma that my father had, my father and my sister growing up and my father lost his father when he was 14 years old. He kind of died at his, in his arms, like he had a heart attack in his arms at like a basketball game.
And he, you know, this is going back so many generations. He's 82 now, like. never really processed that. Um, and so that mentality, um, that kind of scarcity mentality around, I might lose something really important to me. So I have to hold on to everything around me has really informed how his relationship with, with money that has cascaded, you know, throughout our family and always kind of like.
You know, like not wanting to spend like hoard it, but having like enough to spend on, you know, but not wanting to, because not wanting to, you know, probably in case anything, you know, happen, like wanting to have that, that money there. Um, and yeah, it's, it's, I think it's, it's really impacted the way I view money and my mom also, she stayed at home with us.
For a large part of my childhood and then, um, she went back to work, but I think she kind of had some regrets around not making her own. She was working when I was young and then she had my sister and I, so I think she had some regrets about not, you know, going back to work or not making her own, having her own salary and that kind of thing.
And so that kind of always stuck with me. Um, and also cause kind of similar to Linda, like my dad. He, I think, wanted to make like money right out of college and he did. He didn't go to graduate school, but he thought he wanted to be a pharmacist and go back to school for that. But he never did. And I always thought, like, okay, I've got to, I have to go to school.
I have to make sure that I. have the degrees that I need to have, like, lots of different options in life. And so, um, that's one of the reasons, like, I chose education. I, as for my master's, because I knew it was kind of interdisciplinary and I could do probably a lot of different kinds of things with an education degree.
I didn't go to be a teacher, but so, yeah, it's definitely, and I also felt like really strongly, I think, like Linda did, like, I, Was very, I wanted to be self sufficient, like right out of college. I, it was really important to me. I moved back to my parents, you know, my family's home for like the summer and then I got a job the end of August and I moved in, you know, with roommates in September and in Brooklyn.
This is way back before Brooklyn was like Right where I do still live now. Um, so yeah, it's always been very important to me. Uh, and I hope that it's you just never know. I mean, with our kids now, like, I don't know what messages they're picking up or not, but I'm sure they'll work that out. Later, maybe on a podcast.
Laura Rotter
I mean, I'm hearing several things so much. You said Judy. First of all, the role that trauma, you know, it doesn't have to be big tea trauma little tea traumas make. an impact on us and how, and then the choices that we make. And I'm struck that both of you are from a family of two girls. Um, and so am I. And so I don't know if you found the same thing, but because there wasn't a brother to compare, you know, as my dad talking more about money or sports with my, that there was definitely a feeling growing up that I'm, I can do anything I want to do.
I'm expected to do anything I want to do. It's not like I have a different role. I'm supposed to be clearing off the table while my brother sits and talks or something. And I think that's important. Um, that, you know, again, we hear from our parents expectations.
Linda Lautenberg
That's so interesting. I never thought it. First of all, what a coincidence that all three of us, one of two girls, but I never thought about it that way because obviously like my parents. Both went to college, but didn't go to graduate school. And we grew up in the Midwest and somehow they ended up with two daughters that my, my sister's a very, you know, she went and got a law degree, has a successful law practice.
I ended up going to Harvard business school of all things. And I only point that out because I, it, there was nothing coming from my background at home. That would push us to do that, except that what you just said, and that was growing up, never thinking for a second that because we were girls, that there was any limit on what we would do.
And that's, that's, I wonder how different that would have been if we had a brother. That's so interesting.
Laura Rotter
So now I'm curious. What the evolution was, and I guess we could start with how you met, and I'm assuming you both before then had decided that you didn't want to continue in your career, your chosen career paths after college, but I'll leave it to you.
Linda Lautenberg
Sure. Well, I mean, I know Laura, you have a wonderful career reinvention story yourself, and that's what Judy and I are all about. So we came. At the work that we do now through two different paths, kind of very complimentary paths. So Judy will tell her story, but she made a career pivot in midlife. Mine was more of, um, when I was a young mother, um, my husband finished up his residency and we moved out of the city and to New Jersey and I had been working on Wall Street and that became pretty untenable once we moved, you know, a long commute from the city. And, you know, at the time, I mean, zoom, there was no, that was only on the Jetson. I think it was like, we barely had the internet at the time.
So. You know, I took a break a career break and it's interesting when Judy was saying she, you know, got an educate, you know, her masters in education. That's kind of was actually my thought behind my MBA and never for a minute for a minute that I would take a career break, but I did at least know that I had.
Something on my resume said, if I had to do any bobbing and weaving because I had children that I at least had something that I could hang my head on back there. So I thought I would just be out of the workforce for a year or 2, but it just turned out once I was in the suburbs, which was very new to me.
I ended up living in a communities where it was all single parent. Single income families, I went on to have 2 more children. The longer I was out and got involved in a lot of volunteer activities. I really had no, you know, as I mentioned before, I had no draw to finance other than as a financial security measure and because it was there.
And so I didn't have this missing that work to pull me back. And so I just, I was getting a lot of fulfillment by volunteering, by raising my kids, by everything I was doing. And then all of a sudden that first baby out of three was getting ready to go to college. And I thought, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I have, I left this too long and I got really scared. That all that hard work that I put in building up a career, even if that's not exactly what I wanted to go back to, I was starting to be scared that I wouldn't have that. I couldn't get my way back into working full time and that my I was working my way out of a parenting job.
They were all gonna leave and I was gonna be left with nothing. And so I started trying to figure out what I could do next. And that was really hard. It was surprisingly hard. I realized that I didn't know what was out there. I didn't even know what I liked to do anymore, what I wanted to do. I felt it was very isolating.
I tried really hard to Google. I could not Google. And I really had this feeling in my mind very solidly that if I could just figure out somehow what it was that I wanted to do next, I could get myself there. But I just couldn't do it by myself. And then I ran across, I think on Facebook or something, I came across this, um, and this was after three years of this kind of wheel spinning.
I came across a program for women that were looking to return to the workforce, specifically in the social impact space. Which I didn't even know what that was. I assumed it was nonprofit work. I didn't know that's what I wanted to do, but it was the first time I had seen a gathering of women that were all trying to figure it out together.
And so I just signed up and that is actually where I met Judy. So I'll let her take it. Interesting. And what's the name of the program? Cause I'm aware of it doesn't exist anymore. Judy and I, just to spin it out a little more, Judy did the program in an earlier. Cohort and for more like research purposes and the program was flagging and dwindling.
It was like a little program within a larger social impact startup and they ended up asking Judy and I to take it over because the program had kind of been flagging. So we took it over. We read the branding, all the programming through a big, like held a big summit for women returners and then we're ready to launch.
A cohort for them and was the biggest one they'd ever had. And then they ran out of money. It was all so it's all going away, but we ran that cohort because we had committed to it. And then. Once we finished that, and that was specifically for women returning to the workforce. Then it was out of that that Evolve Me was born because we realized that it wasn't just women looking to return to the workforce, but it was women that were just looking for more meaning or to make some sort of change in their career in midlife and to know that there was more for them out there and that they weren't wedded to what they've been doing for the last 20 years.
Laura Rotter
Oh, what a great story. I'm hearing from Judy's point of view.
Judy Schoenberg
Well, I guess I could, um, spin off from where Linda left. Uh, so we, so we launched at the end of 2019. Yes. So, um, we were going to be an in person company based in New York City and run in person trainings for women in midlife career transition, as Linda was saying, returning to the workforce, employed and pivoting, um, wanting to pivot and also, um, you know, for women.
At this age and stage who've, you know, gone through divorce health crises, you know, and need to regain like a professional identity. And so we were going to be a group based cohort structured program. Um, the reinvention collective is the program that we developed and it was going to launch April of 2020.
So, it was that pandemic that happened. Right? So we quickly became a digital company overnight. Right. Right. That was always in our plan, but it happened sooner than we thought. And we did a lot of free programming to support women. So many women were, you know, out of the workforce during the pandemic, but wanted to, um, keep developing skills and, and the commute have the community that they needed.
So we did, yes, a lot of free workshops. And then in September of 2020. Almost three years ago, we launched our first online training, our signature training, which is a 12 week experience for women in midlife, um, focused around our D. A. R. E. method for career reinvention, which is a step by step method, um, that has everything that you need to do to successfully transition.
starting with, um, it's called Discover, Amplify, Refresh, and Embark, and it starts with really the number one step that we think that women tend to not want to do, especially on your own, because it's hard to do, is the inner work. So the inner work of really taking a pause and thinking about what lights me up right now, What do I value?
What are my strengths? Not the strengths that other people have told me or this, you know, what, what lights me up? What are the dreams that I've deferred for, you know, because other things have come up in my life? What are my priorities now? So really taking stock. And so that's kind of a foundational piece of the program.
And then we move through getting your, your voice back. So many women, we work with the most talented credentialed, you know, highly successful women who come to us with very low confidence. And one of the reasons, too, is that they have not really taken stock of their own accomplishments. They're not comfortable talking about their accomplishments.
Maybe they've been out of the workforce for a while, so they're not in touch with their networks and their professional selves. So we do a lot of work around imposter syndrome and self doubt. And so much of that magic happens in community with other women because If you can't, you know, own your own strengths and you can't own your own accomplishments, other women will see value in you and be able to speak that to you.
And it's a very powerful experience for many of the women and transformative. Um, also you have women, we are industry agnostic, so often professional development is done, you know, in your industry or in your silo. And now we have, you know, maybe an architect talking to a lawyer. And so the architect will see things, you know, possibilities for transferable skills that the lawyer has that maybe she can't even begin to decipher for herself.
So, um, there's a lot of neurons firing when you're, you know, when you a group of talented women together and they develop pivot pitches. So they feel more confident going out in the world and sharing their story. So, so much of it is really about owning your value, owning your story, and then being able to share it to the world.
A lot of women we work with, we have FOSO. It's our term for fear of standing out. So we do a lot of work around visibility too. And then also helping them refresh their, um, resume, LinkedIn profile, networking skills, interviewing skills, and to get ready to go out into the world and, and take some risks and experiment and, and try on some new ways of being.
Um, so some of them become entrepreneurs, like all of us here. Some become, um, you know, decide that they may don't want, you know, or don't need or want going back to money, a paid income, and try some strategic volunteering to get their, you know, dip their foot in the water to test things out. Some who are employed will job craft, so they won't necessarily leave their roles, but they might, um, tweak them in a way so that what lights them up is more of what happens in their work day and infuse that energy in that way.
And some, you know, go back to Can more conventional roles and companies and so forth. So we have had a lot of success, you know, we're in our We're launching. Well, we're already in launch mode now for our ninth cohort that starts in October. Yeah.
Laura
How do the cohorts?
Judy Schoenberg
We, um, keep them intimate because that's where we think that the most kind of transformative work can happen.
So they're 12 to 15 women, um, and we have, you know, self paced work for them to engage in on their own time. And then they come live with us once a week and with other experts in our community to go over to workshop together and to collaborate. And to get tips on how to move forward. So, um, yeah, it's been really rewarding for us to see all the places that they've, you know, that they go.
They're, they're also now on podcasts and writing articles and, you know, are definitely more visible. And yeah, it's, it's, it really, it keeps us going to see all the change that's possible. And another thing, another extension of our work that we've been building out more recently is our work with, with companies to evolve new partners with companies, women's employee resource groups to help retain top talent.
So we're helping women get back into the workforce, but we also want the, the, the workplaces that they go to, to support them. You know, to continually have that confidence that they need and, and to skill up and to, to go for those promotions, um, and to take greater risks where they are. So that's also been really exciting work for us as well.
Laura Rotter
Laura Rotter
There is a lot to unpack there. What you said, Judy, first of all, a factual question, just because a lot of the women who listen to this podcast are in a life transition, what would you say is the age range of women who are involved in involve Me?
Judy Schoenberg
Sure. Um, I'd say it's like 40 plus. So forties, fifties, sixties and beyond occasionally because it's more of a stage that you're in.
Sometimes we have women in the programming that are in their late thirties, but it tends to be yes, 40 plus. And yeah, we have women in their 60s working with us. So it's really nice to see that kind of intergenerational dialogue that also happens when we have a diverse age cohort.
Laura Rotter
Yeah, thank you. It's so interesting nowadays.
I, I took part in a class called Mastering Midlife. A friend of mine who I invited to join said, no, I'm too old. I'm not gonna go. And, and midlife was defined as like 35 through 70. Because first of all, thankfully, we're all living longer and healthy, and I'm amazed in the groups I'm in how women continue to reinvent into the 70s and beyond.
And I've also found, and so speaking to the power of groups and small groups, you, Judy, talk to the fact that people can see strengths in ourselves that we don't see. I found, especially when the direction perhaps is to reflect back what you hear, um, You know, personally, the wisdom I voice that I don't even hear until it's repeated back to me.
Oh, I said that, right? We, you know, we are often our best teachers, but we just don't listen, listen to ourselves. So if we're in a group with others that can reflect back what they hear from us, it's, it's so powerful.
Linda Lautenberg
And so interesting sometimes when we do workshop things, when we, when women go into breakout groups, when we bring them back.
Instead of sharing what you shared, we have women share what their partner in the breakout group said, just for that very reason, because sometimes when you hear how someone else interprets what you're saying, it's like, wow, I did say that.
Laura Rotter
Yes, it's so powerful. And often I'll find I don't want to go into the breakout room because I'm a typical woman with my imposter syndrome and everything like that.
And then I come out and you know, we we learn from each other. So I'm curious, I'm going to ask you first, Linda, you Judy, you beautifully broke down the skills that you help women develop. Linda, as you went through your life, Transition, what were the skills that you realized that you had and could bring into the next stage of your life?
Linda Lautenberg
So that's such an interesting question. So, as you know, I've already given my background when I was in college, I was drawn to. I was an artist. I was drawn to things like that. I was, I mean, not, you know, I did. I was like, I was a business major, but I loved marketing and did not like accounting, you know, but then because I wanted to earn a living, I went into finance and earned a CFA, you know, but we can all learn anything, right?
Even, but just because you're good at something doesn't mean that's what you should do. So what I always say is the skills, the transferable skills that I picked up. As a stay at home mom, managing a lot of, managing a household, managing kids, taking on non financial role, leadership roles in different, um, non profit organizations, those are the skills that I bring forward in the work I do with Judy.
In fact, really, somebody should deal with our finances because I haven't I just don't want to. I mean, I can feel that. I don't want to look at that, but I do like the creative side and the, the operational side. And so I was going to put out 1 skill. That I learned, like I have learned that I can just figure out anything.
And I think sometimes you just learn that from being a mom at home. Like everybody, you've got three kids. They have to be three different places all at the same time. And there's one, you know, in the end they're going to get there. Right. And you just develop that confidence. Okay. Just everybody's settled down.
We're going to figure this out. Right. And then somebody forgets something at home. And so now that, you know, throws a wrench into things. You just develop this. Confidence that it's going to be fine and you will figure it out. And so that's something that I've been able to bring to our work with Judy.
Judy has had all the more background of women's leadership and development. And that was some, it was something I experienced, but not something that was in my educational background. But what I did bring was we can just figure out how to do whatever we need to do. So anything that has to do with tech operations, anything like that.
Like I just buckle down and figure it out. That is not something I learned as an undergrad in business school or in my finance. So, you know, there's a lot of transferable skills like that, that you bring that, um, we actually have a story of somebody that went through our program. It was so interesting that her whole background was in education, education as an educator, and as an, as an administrator of schools.
And she was looking to make a pivot into a more corporate role. And she was having doors shut on her left and right because they would just see education educator and say, what can you offer us? Until she went through our program and started pulling all these. Transferable skills and rebranding herself, and she landed a job as like a manager of strategy and portfolio at a tech company, and part of it was that she wrote to us after she'd been there for about a month or two, and she said, Linda and Judy, I have to tell you, 90 percent of what I'm using here are all transferable skills.
10 percent are things that I had to like upskill to understand things at this company. 90 percent and she went from education to tech.
Laura Rotter
What a great success story. And I'm curious, Linda, as again, hearing this curriculum as Judy described it, how did your. Transferable skills inform how you both put the curriculum together, or even how you think about what you want to walk participants through and involve me, like, can you look at what you went through as you created yourself? And therefore, what are the skills you want to pass on to others or the thought process?
Linda Lautenberg
Again, where I was stuck. I think that for both Judy and I, we both had different places. We were stuck. Right. And, and, and also in the conversations with other women. It's they're all stuck at different places. I was stuck it.
I just don't even know what I want to do. I don't know what's out there. I don't know how to ideate this. I don't even know how to think about this. So, for me, that discovery portion was. Huge, right? And we do, when we have a lot of women here, we have a lot of people that say, can I even do this program because I don't know what I want to do?
And we're like, yes, come on in. That's what this is for. Right. But we also have women that enter a different areas where they have a pretty solid idea of what they want to do. But they do not have the confidence to think they could make that move. And so that's why the whole amplify part and that confidence and imposter syndrome part is so important.
And then other women have a pretty good idea of what they want to do. They could get it clear, but they pretty good idea. And they think they're pretty confident, but they just, they can't see how to transfer their skills over. And they really just need to get clear on those first two parts, but really what they're needing as a repackaging.
So the refresh portion becomes really important for them, although they can't kind of just dive right into their resume because they need to get more clarity on the first two parts. So, what do you think, Judy?
Judy Schoenberg
I mean, I, I think for me, I had a long career in the nonprofit sector, right? In research and program development, focus on girls and, you know, women's leadership.
But I worked at Girl Scouts of the USA and for 15 years as a chief research executive. And I knew that I had another chapter in me, um, when I was approaching my late forties. And I had Come out of graduate school and I was there for 15 years, but I didn't know exactly what that look like. And I also did a lot of Googling around and, you know, there wasn't, I felt like it was really isolating to be.
I was like, there has to be other women like me. Who've been in one industry for a long time and want to make a change and leverage their, you know, repackage and leverage their skill sets. But there didn't seem like there was any user manual or path forward for that. So what I did was I started applying to jobs.
Like Linda used this phrase before, but jobs that I knew that I could do. So I thought, okay, I was at a large nonprofit. I know I could probably be a CEO of a small nonprofit. And I had the, you know, the leadership background to do that. And I started interviewing for those roles. And I was like, huh, do I want like, I know I could do this.
But do I really feel in my gut that this is what I want? Or is it just another progression in the career that I've had? And because I've been successful there, I should just continue. So, but I loved, I love relationships. I love connecting with people. I, I made it my kind of goal in my, during my research career to do more public speaking and to apply for conferences because I really love getting out and sharing.
The work that we did. And so I was like, Oh, but I like the training. I like the speaking. I like facilitation. I like people. Maybe I can leverage the research skills in a new way. And I really felt really passionate about women in the workplace because I had a, I worked full time for raising two kids and.
Well, we don't have to talk about that, but it wasn't easy. That's a whole other
podcast for two or three, and so I was like I want the next generation to have it easier So I was very passionate about women in the workplace issues And you know the pandemic gave us a platform to to bust that open and talk all about that now, which has been great uh, but that was kind of my my lens when I went into my, you know through in my transition and then Never thought that I would, you know, be an entrepreneur at all, but doing, you know, this, this fellowship that Linda mentioned early on in our conversation opened me up to new possibilities too, about how I can transfer some of the skills that I had at Girl Scouts in, in new ways.
And also just opened me up to like, okay, you know, why wouldn't I consider being a entrepreneur? Like I was like, no, I can only be in the nonprofit sector. Like that's, and I said, but no, like you can do mission driven work. You can do social impact work and other sex. So I think that, that was eye opening to me.
Going back to our first conversation, I also saw my father be an entrepreneur and how hard it was to. So I think that now that all the wheel, everything's, you know, linking back up. Um, and maybe I didn't want to do something so risky early on in my career, but after having had a lot of accomplishments and having a family situation that allowed me to take more risks.
You know, having, you know, a partner and, you know, stable financial, you know, security there. I was able to do it. So all in all, I think that one of the things that, you know, for us, like, now that we are 3 years into working with women, um, in these ways, I think that there are different pathways. That are emerging because we have all these success stories now of of different ways that you can leverage your skill sets, and it can be a mini pivot, or it can be a big pivot, a 360 degree pivot, but I think what we want to do is also provide that pathway for them because just to make it easier because we, you know, it was hard to figure out, like, Whether it was worth taking the risk, like to leave the industry, you know, and to bet on yourself.
And I think that if you, you know, if you have six, like, if you know, if we always say, if you can't see it, you can't be it. Right. So the more stories we share of women who've had different paths to successful transitions, um, and the steps that you need to take to get there. I think that that's actually something new that we're going to be infusing in the curriculum going forward, because We, you know, as we've worked with, you know, over hundreds of women now, and we, we do know like what clearly what some of the kind of main roadmaps are like, you know, there's, you know, the, the types of paths that women can take.
Yeah, we're excited about that.
Laura Rotter
Thank you both for that explanation. And I, you know, I, I so agree. That's why I started this podcast. You know, I'm, you know, if you don't hear it, you can't move forward because so many of us, especially when you get to a certain age, 50, give or take, and you're like, oh, this isn't going to go on forever.
And I'm not happy, how do I change that? Can I change it? And I think Judy, it's, you know, very brave as you described to have walked away from roles and an industry that you felt very comfortable in. And, um, I was in a dyad with a woman last evening in a group I'm in. And, you know, she said out loud to herself, and I'm going to quote it that just because something is comfortable.
Doesn't mean that's what you should be doing. And that's, that's a very brave statement to make because especially when you have a skillset and you're well regarded and you know, you can do it to say, yeah, but it's not working for me is a very brave thing to do. And, and it's also gratifying. I'm hearing from both of you to help other women who may be in that particular situation, like, yes, I'm an attorney or yes, I'm a nonprofit executive and.
I'm not happy. And so what's the next step? And to…
Judy Schoenberg
Yeah, it's a big identity shift too. I mean, to have, especially like for me, I worked at a brand, a household name organization, Girl Scouts, like everybody talked to me about the cookies at cocktail parties, even though I was in research, um, you know, like, and to walk away, you know, and leave your title at the door.
And then you're like, well, who, so that, for me, the biggest, for me and my professional trajectory, when I knew when I left, yeah. I needed to figure out who I was without the title and without the organization and company behind me. That was success for me. Like, I needed to rediscover, like, who I was, and that, that was the challenge that I, that I put to myself.
Laura Rotter
Oh, so that's a beautiful segue to, as we get to the end of our time together, a question that I like to ask my guests and, uh, whichever one of you wants to be the first to answer, but how has your definition of success shifted through this transition and if there's a different definition of financial success, perhaps also that may have evolved for either or both of you.
I guess maybe I'll ask Linda first.
Linda Lautenberg
I think that, um, for me, one of the things that I really value about the work we're doing now, clearly I wanted, I wanted to be doing something where I would be, you know, when I was in finance, it was fun. It was exciting. It was. There were a million things I liked about it, even if I, you know, wasn't naturally, that wouldn't naturally been my band, but, but I didn't feel like I was really helping anybody else.
I mean, I think that was my thought when I wanted to go back to work. I'm like, I could go back to that work, but I'm. Really just making rich people richer. And that was like fine for that period of my life. But I wanted to feel like I was doing something to move the needle forward for someone. And so what I like in this stage of our careers, you know.
In the work that Judy and I do is every time we get that feedback that we've somehow helped somebody change the trajectory of their whole life, like, or made this process easier than it was for Judy and I, then. Then we've done something right, even if we've done that for one person, and if we've been able to do that for a lot of people like so much, the better so that's that's really important to me.
And that's what gets us up in the morning and helps us do this work all the time. I also personally, I like the flexibility. I like being in control of what we're doing. I like that. We can set our own company values. And do business the way that Judy and I are very aligned in a very women supporting women kind of non transactional way.
And, you know, we're very authentic and warm and honest and and we're able to do business that way. And that's our decision. So I like that. And I like that. There's so many. There are endless opportunities to learn new things and grow being an entrepreneur there. There is no end to the amount of things to learn.
You know, like the world of work is always changing. Technology is always changing. There's always new skills to develop. So I like that it especially at this Stage, you know, I'm in my late fifties now, like, I think it's so important to just be constantly learning and learning and learning new things. And I like that, that I can incorporate that into our work as well.
Laura Rotter
Oh, that's so beautifully said as an entrepreneur myself and also an amazing journey of self knowledge, which I never expected this path to be. So, Judy, you started to talk about how your definition of success has shifted.
Judy Schoenberg
So yeah, Linda and I can finish each other's sentences sometimes.
Laura Rotter
I love it. I love it.
Judy Schoenberg
She gave me a, she let, let off. She let off where I'm going to pick up, which is, um, a growth. So for me, my new definition of success is getting is, is leaving the ladder behind. And having a nonlinear career, being comfortable with my career, like not feeling like it's on one track, you know, and having shifted industries, I definitely got off that ladder, but really just about measuring success and how much I'm growing and learning, um, as a person and definitely, um, becoming an entrepreneur, I realized it is about my own personal development and it is about, you know, so many of the things that I wanted to change At the company that I, that I work other, you know, the company I worked with or other companies I've been a part of, like, we can now do all of that on our own.
And so that feels like I'm really actualizing things that I value and that I want to put out into the world. And that feels really, um, rewarding and, and, and authentic and aligned to, to the rest of my life. And I think going back and, you know, focus on the rest of my life, like I'm, you know, in my early fifties, and I think that there has been a shift, um, you know, during this time, the last few years of like, um, instead of, you know, work life balance, like life work balance.
So my definition of success is how I, how work aligns to the rest of my life and that the other things that I care about, my kids, my family, wellness, exercise, spending time outdoors, doing things that are fun, that, that is front and center as well. And I think that the company, you know, that Linda and I created, like allows me to, feel that we're, you know, that we are successful because we're doing a lot of these things, not all of them always at the same time, but, um, but, but a lot of the thing, a lot of the goals that we had, I think aligned to come back to also that.
I think we're on the same page too, as co founders about what success looks like for us. It's very, it's been very powerful to have like working relationship with somebody that you'd ever, I mean, we didn't even know each other before we weren't friends, right? That it's like, like a gift from the goddesses or something that it's, it's really worked out so well that we are, you know, feeling very similarly about what we want success to look like in this, this stage of our lives.
Almost like karma that you both met this sort of, I don't know if you know what your relationships with spirituality or faith is, but I, you know, speaking with both of you, it's, it's clear that you were meant to do this work together. And I love that you're both. Really mission driven and I, I've certainly found for myself when I started this financial planning business, I was, as they say, shutting all over myself and, you know, I just can't do that.
I have to be pulled towards the work and I took this off. This is hanging in my room. Only love. Every day when I, you know, get up and are about to have a conversation, you know, I, before I started this financial planning practice, I thought, should I be a rabbi? Should I be a yoga teacher? And this is the drive because there's so much in the work that you do also fear and anxiety about change, about security, about the future.
And I just want my work to be, to open my heart. To others to help them relax, feel calmer, feel confident. And of course, you know, again, nothing's linear. It's not like, okay, now I'm good. We all have these ups and downs and peaks and valleys. And to normalize that for myself and for people. And, you know, I'm, I'm so happy to have met the both of you.
Laura Rotter
I love the work that you're doing. I feel like it's really changing women's lives. It's important work. So as we come to the end of our conversation, is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners? Anything that may not have come up yet?
Linda Lautenberg
Sure. So, um, I guess if this is airing our, our next Reinvention Collective, if anyone is interested, it launches, we do two a year.
So at the time that we're recording this, it's August. So our next one, we launch one in October and one in February every year. So the next one is October 24th. And if you want to learn more about it. If you head to our website, which is evolveme. org, you'll see a page about the Reinvention Collective, and you can book a discovery call with us if you want to see if it's a fit for you.
And we also have a whole bunch of freebies on our website, some really amazing resources that we would encourage you to download and take a look at if you think that you might be contemplating You know, any kind of a career transition, any time out in the future, you're just looking to get a little more clarity on where you're at.
There's a lot on there for you as well as our blog. And you'll see how she did an interview with the amazing Laura water on there. I just read it before this, um, before this podcast and it's really, it's so beautiful what you wrote. About your own career transition. Thank you. So it's evolved me. org is our website.
Laura Rotter
And I will of course include that in the show notes. And, um, do you want to finish Linda's sentence, Judy, or you're good?
Judy Schoenberg
I'm good. I guess, well, I do have a full circle. Um, moment to share, which is I love the work that you're doing, Laura, and you're helping so many women feel, you know, more confident and to live in abundance, um, is, is something that I think, I mean, I talked about the scarcity mentality that I grew up with.
So that really resonates with me and what also resonated with me is when you showed that only love, um, piece of paper that you held up, which is like, when I think back to. Um, my transition sitting in my office, um, at Girl Scouts, the thing that I could think about, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do next or how it would happen, but the only thing that I could think that would come to my mind was like, I just want more love to happen, like, between.
People and you know, I was working at a girls and women's organization. So mostly focused, you know, I was thinking about that in terms of supporting women, but I was like, I don't know what it looks like, but there just has to be more love. I think I was reacting to some of the the political culture of the organization I was in.
But I think that that's such a beautiful way to describe how you want to be in the world and how you want to show up. And it's definitely, I think, um, At the core of what we do, too. And I think people feel that. So thank you for you know that this conversation with us and feel it and hear it. So we're excited to have it out in the world.
And again, thank you for the opportunity.
Laura Rotter
Oh, my pleasure. Thank you both for being my guests.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Linda Lautenberg and Judy Schoenberg of Evolve Me. And I'd like to share with you some of my takeaways. Just because you're good at something, Doesn't mean that's what you should do as a career. Linda shared that she received her MBA from Harvard Business School, passed the CFA exam, and chose to go into finance in order to earn a living.
But though she clearly had the skill set to excel, she wasn't drawn to work with numbers. My second takeaway to share, believe that everything can be figured out. Linda learned from being a stay at home mom juggling three kids that had to be at three different places at the same time that everything is going to be fine.
It gave her the confidence that she'll be able to figure anything. My third takeaway, If you can't see it, you can't be it. Judy believes in the importance of sharing the stories. of different paths women have taken towards successful transitions. From working with hundreds of women, she recognizes how important it is to hear about others roadmaps when we embark on our own journeys.
And finally, it's important to always be learning new things. The world of work is always changing. Technology is always changing. There are always new skills to develop. Linda and Judy are finding in their new roles that there are endless opportunities to learn and grow. And to define success by how much they're learning and growing as people.
Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe. So you won't miss next week's episode and share it with a friend who you think would enjoy it. And if you love the show, please leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts. It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
Narrator
Thanks for listening to Making Change with Your Money Certified Financial Planner. Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors.com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer,
Please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.