A conversation with Genevieve Piturro, founder of Pajama Program. Since passing the baton as Executive Director, Genevieve now speaks, writes, conducts workshops and consults with individuals, organizations and companies to help them connect and align their purpose with what is most important to them, their teams, their communities, and the greater good.
Genevieve Piturro ia an inspirational TEDx speaker, OPRAH guest, 5x award winning/best selling author, and founder of the national organization, Pajama Program. Her expertise is empowering leaders to ignite their purpose and inspire their teams and teaching others how to listen to their hearts, embrace the human connection and lead with purpose. In addition to OPRAH, her work has been featured in The Today Show, Forbes, CNN, and The Wall Street Journal, and she rang the Nasdaq Stock Market Opening Bell in 2016!
Genevieve shares her journey from a successful television executive to founder of a non-profit organization. The discussion delves into Genevieve's early life and career ambitions, highlighting her drive to succeed in the radio and television business. In Genevieve's words, life in the entertainment industry was exciting, but it was a real workaholic life.
A pivotal moment occured when Genevieve, questioning her life's purpose in her mid-thirties, finds herself profoundly moved by the experience of reading to children in homeless shelters. This leads to the inception of the Pajama Program, aimed at providing comfort and care to children in need.
Genevieve narrates the challenges of venturing into this new path, including the financial sacrifices and societal pressures she faced, and emphasizes the fulfillment that comes from pursuing a heart-driven mission. The podcast encapsulates themes of finding one’s purpose, the importance of listening to one's heart, and redefining financial and personal success.
“I found myself in a quiet moment, hearing something that spoke to me, in me. I heard it in the depth of my heart, which I learned later was my heart. It wasn't a brain thought that we all have, and I had 24/7. It was a voice that asked me, if this is the next 30 years of your life, is this enough?” - Genevieve Piturro
Key takeaways:
-Decide what you want and go after it. After hosting a show on her college’s radio station,, Genevieve decided that she wanted to go into radio or television. So she woke up each morning, picked up her rotary phone while still in her pajamas, and called every number on the list of radio and tv stations that she had compiled. She was eventually offered a job at a radio station that was owned by Group W, which also owned a tv syndication company.
-Pursue projects that excite and motivate you. Genevieve was so motivated to find a position in radio and television that she was able to reframe the no’s she received during her job search as a challenge rather than as a rejection. And again, when working in PR, Genevieve was excited to call the press to get publicity for her company’s shows. She shared that she loved to see the articles come out and the positive reaction of readers to the stories.
-Be open to listening to your heart, and not just your head. Genevieve describes finding herself, in a quiet moment, hearing a voice speaking to her from the depths of her heart. This voice asked her: “if this is the next 30 years of your life, is it enough?” She was making money, but was she truly contributing? Whose life was she touching? That voice was the first step towards the decision that would ultimately change the trajectory of Genevieve’s life and lead to the founding of Pajama Program.
-Know that following your heart isn’t easy. Genevieve shared that she had to make some tough financial decisions when she left a successful career to found a national, non-profit organization. And she never regretted her decision; she says it has been the most rewarding thing she has ever done. She sees her mission now as being a cheerleader for individuals who are thinking of following their heart and making a change.
About the Guest:
Genevieve’s journey has taken her from a little girl's question in a homeless shelter to the Oprah show to boardrooms and stages across America. A successful TV executive, Genevieve dramatically changed the direction of her life and found her purpose when a 6-yr old girl’s question rocked her world and she jumped off the corporate ladder. In 2001 Piturro founded the hugely successful national organization, Pajama Program, and has written two books on purposeful leadership and launching a legacy.
Her 7x award-winning Amazon best seller, Purpose, Passion and Pajamas: How to Transform Your Life, Embrace the Human Connection and Lead with Meaning, debuted during the Covid shutdown to rave reviews as its message dovetails with our Nation’s interest in the Power of Purpose & The Human Connection. Genevieve’s second book, Purpose, Passion and Moxie: How to Lead the Way and Leave a Legacy, a workbook to help you start a nonprofit from scratch to success, was released in September 2023.
Website: https://www.genevievepiturro.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevievepiturro/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/genevievepiturro
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GenPiturro/
Free resource: What's Your Purpose - an Exercise in 4 steps
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Disclaimer: Please remember that the information shared on this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment or financial advice. It’s for informational purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.
Genevieve Petturo
I found myself in a quiet moment hearing something that spoke to me in me. So I heard it in the depth of my heart, which I learned later is, is my, was my heart. It wasn't a brain thought that we all have. And I had 24 seven. So It was a voice that asked me, if this is the next 30 years of your life, is this enough?
Narrator
Welcome to making change with your money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now here's your host. Certified financial planner, Laura Rotter.
Laura Rotter
I am so excited to have as my guest today, Genevieve Petturo.
Genevieve's journey has taken her from a little girl's question in a homeless shelter to the Oprah show. to boardrooms and stages across America. A successful TV executive, Genevieve dramatically changed the direction of her life and found her purpose when a six year old girl's question rocked her world and she jumped off the corporate ladder.
In 2001, Peturo founded the hugely successful national organization Pajama Program and has written two books on purposeful leadership and launching a legacy. Today, Genevieve is an inspirational speaker, author, and teacher of purpose and the human connection. So welcome Genevieve to the making change with your money podcast.
Genevieve Petturo
Thank you for inviting me, Laura. I'm really happy to be here.
Laura Rotter
Yeah, we're gonna have fun. So, my first question as always is, Genevieve, what was money like in your family growing up?
Genevieve Petturo
Tight. The whole idea of it doesn't grow, doesn't grow on trees. was something we heard a lot. My mom was a stay at home mom, which a lot were then, and we loved having her there.
I didn't know how much, how many sacrifices they had to make so she could do that. My dad worked a civil job, you know, New York City, city job. So we had one income, four kids. Four kids, wow. Yeah, yeah. And um, we had a lot of love though. Yes.
Laura Rotter
So it sounds like it was definitely communicated. With words that money, as you said, didn't grow on trees.
And at the same time, it sounds like you were, you know, four kids, nice size family and grew up very close with your parents and your siblings. Is that correct?
Genevieve Petturo
Yes. Yes. Being Italian. My dad off the boat from Italy. Really, really, you know, really was front and center. This is an Italian traditional family.
Family is first. Grandparents are included in Sunday dinners. And, you know, you just stick together no matter what. You eat together. There are expectations that you're made aware of, and it was, it was a pretty tight knit family, and lots of rules, lots of rules, but I think we all turned out better for them.
Laura Rotter
Where did you grow up?
Genevieve Petturo
Yonkers, New York, a town outside of New York City.
Laura Rotter
Yes, a local, local girl. And so what was, I guess your early teenage years, were you someone who felt the need to earn money? Did you babysit? Do you remember your first jobs? Yes. Yes.
Genevieve Petturo
Yes. I was the, I'm the oldest of four and I'm a girl again.
I'll bring up the Italian thing because rules were different for me than the next in line. It was my brother, but I felt the pinch, the financial pinch. I wanted to live in New York city. I wanted to be a career girl. I wanted to be independent and I wanted to be able to create and design the life that I wanted.
So I did babysit, I did newspapers, you know, delivery as a kid and the cash, you know, back then you'd go around to collect your weekly pay from the neighbors and that It was only cash, you know, so it just felt like I was a millionaire on payday. I remember holding that cash, which I, you know, I'd never seen my dad holding cash.
I don't, I don't know that they had enough cash to hold and I just said, this feels really good and really free. And instead of following the hints of getting married and having a family, I thought, Getting a job in New York City sounds way more exciting and independent.
Laura Rotter
So how'd you go about doing that?
Getting to the point where you actually, as we know, you know, accomplished that goal.
Genevieve Petturo
I did. Well, I wanted to go to college, which was definitely on my dad and my mom's plan for us. So I went to college and I I love to write and I thought I'd go into journalism, but I found out that Fordham University had a very big 50, 000 watt radio station, WFUV, which runs a lot of public stations because this was student run.
And I went in, you know, and I was pretty shy until college. And I got bold and I went in and I said, what is everybody doing here? You know, what can I do? I can write. And so I joined Fordham. As a student volunteer, we all were. And somehow I landed a job interviewing and hosting a Saturday morning public affairs show.
And I loved it. I learned the keyboard. I learned how to produce it. And, and I loved it. And I thought, you know what? I could go into radio. I can go into TV because I know how to interview people. I can, I can do this. I'm not afraid to speak. And right out of college. I decided that I wanted to work in New York City in TV or radio, and I started calling up all the radio stations and one radio station, W.
I. N. S. radio, a big old news station, the news director came on the phone, and I laughed because now you can't get a real person, but the news director got on the phone and interviewed me on the phone for a long time, and I thought that was really odd, but I was thrilled, and he told me that I had a really good radio voice.
And I said, well, I worked at. WFUV radio station and he knew about that and so he gave me a shot at the overnight shift and I loved that but the best part was they were owned by group w productions westinghouse which owned the TV syndication company. And so I found a way to go from a year at the radio into television sales.
And that opened up a lot of TV opportunity. And I, and I love that.
Laura Rotter
Wow. I'm going to take a step back and say, first of all, you're clearly a woman who has always gone after what she wanted, you know, picked up the phone and made phone calls. Didn't shy away from rejection? Has that You know, does that resonate with you?
As I say that you're someone who has a certain amount of self confidence.
Genevieve Petturo
Yes. And, you know, it's so it's so funny because I've told this story to my nephews and my niece as they've been trying to navigate their career paths. And I didn't look at it as bold, but Every morning I'd get up. I, my sister and I slept upstairs in one bedroom, my brother's in another, and I had the old black phone, the older phone.
Oh, the rotary. The rotary under my bed. I woke up and I waited till the clock said 9:00 AM I started dialing in my pajamas in my bed, the list of TV and radio stations that I had, and I just called them all one. And that's when I was sitting in bed on the phone with that news director of the radio station, WINS.
answering his calls in my pajamas in bed. And I did that every morning. And I looked back and I said, wow, I was really motivated. You were, I was, I was, but I didn't look at it as rejection. I just looked at it as a challenge, but you know, I hated, I hated getting no's. I was, you know, I was hoping one of them was going to turn into a yes and it, and it did.
But I, I guess that was how we were brought up. You just, you just do it. You're just not
afraid of hard work.
Laura Rotter
I love that. And I love the reframe that you made, which is that you didn't look at it as rejection. You looked at it as a challenge. And I just want to. Repeat that for our listeners, because, of course, as we, as we identify what we want and start to go after it, it takes that enthusiasm and that passion to go after it and not feel like, oh, no, another rejection.
Genevieve Petturo
So, yeah, in my pajamas every morning, that was a routine went down with my arm, pulled up the black phone, put it on my bed on my covers.
Laura Rotter
So you had that job working for, I guess it's so long ago, Westinghouse, and, and you were actually on air on television? How did that happen?
Genevieve Petturo
It was. It was. It was a project that he explained to me on the phone called News Phone, and it was a 60 second report that I would give. I had the overnight shift of one minute of the headlines.
But they had to call a phone number, so they were listening to the radio, and the radio person said, if you missed anything, call News Phone, and they'd give the number, and they would get me. I would tape myself every half hour with the most updated News or W. I. N. S. News phone. That's what it was.
Laura Rotter
And as you look back, what skills did that role that job help you develop?
Genevieve Petturo
You know, I have learned and I probably did start there to write concisely to write in a compelling way because you know, the A. P. Wire was going and I had to pull it off and I had to listen to the radio and read and I had one minute to put everything, including sports and news And I learned that the fewer words, the better because you have to choose those very carefully.
So you choose compelling words. And that stayed with me, my whole writing career, even through my book and through everything I've done in my work, promoting whatever I've been promoting. I learned early on, you know, as if everything is only a minute's worth of time that I have.
Laura Rotter
It's an important skill to learn how to summarize, you know.
Not only concisely, but really pick out the points that are important, right? And make sure that you're getting that across. And make it interesting. Oh, and make it interesting. Icing on the cake. What period of time was that? And how, how long?
Genevieve Petturo
I graduated in 83. And I got that job pretty, pretty soon after May.
And it lasted a little less than one year.
Laura Rotter
Okay. So a little bit before mid eighties. And then how did your journey unfold after that?
Genevieve Petturo
And then when I went to work in the TV area, I loved that. I really loved that. But Westinghouse at the time was just sales in New York, group W productions, which was, I think, Mike Douglas show.
And at He Man, the masters of the universe, a bunch of shows that were creatively. fostered in L. A. and in the New York area, they just did the sales. So I worked there for three years and learned what syndication was and then realized or found out that there were syndication companies and creative producers for those companies in New York.
And then I, I interviewed and developed maybe eight years of work in New York at the producer slash syndicator companies of shows that we know that were in reruns, which is what syndication is.
Laura Rotter
Right. So essentially they're purchased, these shows are purchased by the syndicators and then they keep running them and get revenue.
Genevieve Petturo
Right. And in some cases they're produced by the syndicators. I worked for Don Taffner and he produced Three's Company, the American version of the British, and he produced it and syndicated it. So that was, that was his claim to fame and he produced other things as well.
Laura Rotter
Thank you for clarifying that. And what, what exactly was your role at that company?
Genevieve Petturo
I did PR, which was a lot of fun, marketing and PR. So as I grew in, in my skills and saw that I was really good at finding a way to, and probably it goes back to what we were talking about, which I never realized until now, Laura, putting a pitch together. In a, in a concise and compelling way to somebody that you're asking to write about you, I was good at getting publicity for our shows, calling up the press, writing to the press and interesting them into in a story about our shows and things like that.
So I love doing that. And that quickly became my niche during the PR.
Genevieve Petturo
Genevieve, what was your favorite part of that, because I can, as I sit here talking to you, clearly you're a people person. You can get passionate about what you're doing. You talk about you're a good writer. I mean, what turned you on about it? What did you enjoy?
Genevieve Petturo
I loved being able to, to make an interview happen because I, I could only imagine all the people reading about some of their favorite people in an article. And you have to remember back then it was a much more positive. PR Game, it's different now back then Reporters were interested in the good things That some of the produce what a concept So I it never worried me that any reporter would twist anything and look for a scandal to look to, you know, to put something negative into a story.
If we got a story, and the shows were fun family shows, so if we got something in the press, I was so excited to see it come out and people would react to it. People, the shows we watched, people would call, people would comment. And it was, it was so much fun to share what was on TV and some of the celebrities with this big audience that I, that I wouldn't have ever been able to, to impact.
Laura Rotter
Again, as I speak with you, Genevieve, I see a through line, which is you get excited about things you're doing, and it motivates you to continue and to do it, which is not a trait that everyone has. So I can see how that worked in your favor when you were in that kind of a role.
Genevieve Petturo
It was a really fun time.
You know, I, I, I, I switched careers because of my story and what happened, but there were, there were a lot of fun times and it was a, it was a different time. It was a different time back then. You know, it was a different time in New York City. It was a different time in the entertainment businesses. It was a totally different vibe.
And, you know, I was just, I'm, I am so grateful that that's when I had the job I had.
Laura Rotter
Thank you. So now please, please share how you came to be in a homeless shelter. What, what?
Genevieve Petturo
Well, I didn't live in a homeless shelter.
Laura Rotter
We don't think you did.
Genevieve Petturo
I've met many beautiful, loving people who have, because of Pajama Program, who have spent time adults with families there and I can tell you some of the stories where it could have been me, it could have been you, it could have been anyone falling on hard times and I have learned to appreciate those people and how they worked to find a life again after having lived in a homeless shelter with a family.
I can't, I can't imagine and I thank God that I was able to help but I. Was doing my work in entertainment business in a in a great time, and it was a real workaholic life. It was it was exciting, but it was 24 7 and I think I had pushed back those days. Yeah. dreams of my parents of me meeting and marrying and having children and grandchildren for them At you know early 20s age like people were doing then I think I had pushed that so far back that here I am in my mid 30s In my apartment, I bought it.
So I had a mortgage. I found myself in a quiet moment hearing something that spoke to me in me. So I heard it in the depth of my heart, which I learned later is, is my, was my heart. It wasn't a brain thought that we all have. And I had 24 seven. It was a voice that asked me if this is the next 30 years of your life, is this enough?
Now it didn't have an Italian accent. But it probably, it probably was, was part of what I didn't realize, a beautiful part of my upbringing that I had ignored, or I had said, that's not my life. My life is more exciting than that. And in those moments of sitting there catching my breath, because I heard that clearly, I thought, my goodness, you know, I have nieces and nephews that I love that I get down on the floor and play with.
Did I run over that whole idea so fast that I didn't realize I'd be alone in 30 years? And what am I really? Contributing. And what am I really, who am I touching? I'm making money. I'm making other people money. It's exciting. I could be alone in 30 years and this will get old. And I thought about the children and it wasn't, I wasn't in any position, you know, I didn't have anybody to, you know, I wasn't going to marry anybody and it wasn't going to happen that way.
So I thought, how can I bring children into my life? And I remembered. A TV segment on the news where children were being taken out of a home by police and social workers because they were being hurt in that home, and I called the police and asked them about those situations and where they bring the children, and they told me about some emergency shelters.
And I called and asked if I could come and read to one of them, and to the children at one of the, one of the shelters and I was welcomed in, and I was excited. Because I, I had no clue, I was so ignorant of what I'd find, and when I brought some children's books and was starting to read to these children, sitting on the floor, there was a very bare shelter, but they were, they were safe.
They did, the children were just staring at me, I mean, I saw that they were traumatized, I saw that they were afraid, I, some of them were crying, I saw how nervous they were, and I wasn't prepared, so I just read slowly and, Connected eyes, the eyes and didn't know what I could do other than keep reading, keep reading.
I couldn't, I couldn't touch them. Obviously, I couldn't ask them to sit in my lap. I was given the rules so I could just do that for 45 minutes. And then the caretakers who were there would take them into another room to go to sleep. And I did this week after week in a couple of local shelters. And one night I wanted to see where they were taking these children to go to sleep.
This was after I worked a full day and I was even in my suit, and I followed and the room I saw them going to sleep in was just as bare. And they were sleeping together, two, three at a time, on a futon, on a couch, on a pull out. And they had their, their clothes on that were soiled and some didn't fit well, because they were, they were literally just grabbed for safety.
And they, and they were still being processed and, you know, still trying to figure out what the next step could be to keep them safe. And I stared at this situation and I had this flood of memories of my mom. In that same room where I made those phone calls when I was young, and my sister was in the next bed, and, and The bedtime was loving and fun and giggly and food and cookies and any excuse not to let my mom leave our bedside.
Another story. And of course we had pajamas. We didn't have a lot, but we had pajamas. And that's what stood out when I looked at the scene that they were in their same clothes and they were wriggling around because they were uncomfortable. And I thought, how are they ever going to fall asleep? How are they ever going to dream?
How are they ever going to? Feel feel calm. They can't even fall asleep. I have to bring pajamas at least that And when I asked if I could, the woman said, that would be so nice. No one ever thinks of that. And so I brought pajamas and I gave them out. One little girl was so, so afraid to take them from me.
She kept backing away, backing away. And I got close to her finally. And I tried to have her touch how soft they were. I told her she could wear them probably the whole next day. They wouldn't make her take them off after she woke up and, you know, she could keep these. She never has to give them back to me.
They're hers forever. And she just leaned in and she, she whispered, what are pajamas? And Laura, that was the minute, the moment that I, I had to catch my breath. And that had, I mean, I could never, could never have imagined anything like that. And nothing was ever the same after, nothing. And I had to really collect myself.
And from that moment, you know, I want to say I had no choice. Of course, I had a choice, but my brain just got shut down by my heart. I shut it down. So, thankfully, everything worked out, but, you know, I wrote my book because I wanted to inspire others. Doesn't mean it's easy, but it's the best life you'll ever have when you follow your heart.
Laura Rotter
So, I have to take a deep breath. Ooh, such a powerful, such a powerful. So you make it sound easy and I know you, you did preface what you just said with, you know, wasn't easy, but what exactly did you do?
Genevieve Petturo
Well, I did the thing I tell people not to do. I clammed up because I said to myself, what am I going to say?
I was a stellar employee. And then from the next day on, all I could think about was. All these kids and running out to the stores to buy pajamas and making appointments to come as many times as I, as I could. And I was never a saver. I had a mortgage and had my bills and I was solely responsible for everything.
And I had a good job. And I said, I don't know what I'm going to do, but all of a sudden I can see my life unraveling here and I better, I better be careful. So when I would think about it, I would think I can't say anything because what am I, what in the world would I say to anybody? I'm going to quit my job because all I want to do is buy pajamas and bring them to all these kids everywhere because let me tell you, they don't have pajamas and let me tell you what I saw and it's heartbreaking.
It's unacceptable. You have to help me. And I thought, oh my god, that sounds ridiculous and stupid, irresponsible, etc. So I didn't say anything, and I ran around leading a double life. And one of my chapters, at the end of every chapter, I give Heart of the Matter lessons, and one of them is Leave Juggling to the Clowns.
Because it blew up and I learned it blew up because I was right. The first person I confided in, it was like, it was like she was beating me up. Are you crazy? Why, why would you do that? You work so hard to get here. Can't you do that? Like on the weekend, once or twice a month, you're not giving them a house.
You're not adopting them. You're not really giving them anything. And she didn't get it and it went right to my heart because I knew even though I couldn't I couldn't explain it It would take me a while to understand That it wasn't the material of the pajamas, it was the comfort and the peace and the care and the security that they were feeling somehow.
I mean, it's amazing that I could believe that it wasn't something that was keeping them warm. It was more than that, so much more than that, because it was the foundation of bedtime my mom gave me. And all of that came down to the word pajamas. It was.
Laura Rotter
That it represented something more than just the clothes.
Genevieve Petturo
Yes!
Exactly, Laura. It represented a whole lot more. And because this one woman shot me down, I clammed up again. And it took a long time, but I realized that once I started to tell people, they weren't all like her. In fact, More people, when they heard the story of the little girl, said how can I help, how can I help, and, and that's, and that's why I speak and I teach and I write about purpose and the human connection.
It's a voice that moves the world.
Laura Rotter
Now, I know you to be someone who can pick up the phone and go after what she wants, so how long did it take you? to make up your mind that you were going to follow your heart?
Genevieve Petturo
Well, I was doing this alone. I met a great guy who was, was helping me and then I had to quit my job.
I had to, I had to tell him because I didn't, I knew he thought we'd, Be a two income couple and I knew that that was not going to be the case And he he told me he thought I should go for it. So we struggled financially Together and I did it but I I never thought of growing it. I just thought I didn't know what I thought.
I just thought I'd have to find a way to pay my bills, whether I worked in a store or and I kept telling him I will work in McDonald's overnight shift. I won't let you down if we decide to take a permanent step together. I will pull my weight and I'm okay working at McDonald's. I promised him that. The End.
I did. I remember that. It reminds me of that. But what happened was a woman called someone alerted a woman from Parenting Magazine about what I was doing. And she called me out of the blue and said, Are you the lady giving pajamas to children in shelters? And I said, Yeah, I guess that's me. So she said, Can we write a small article?
And so I said, Sure. So she did. And 9 11 happened right after that. Everything stopped. The world stopped. The magazine stopped publishing. But when we realized we were all going to survive months later, she did publish the issue with my article. I didn't know the timing of this until one day, thousands of boxes and packages started to arrive at my one bedroom.
And I had no idea and we had doorman who was screaming at me thinking I was running an illegal business because literally from one day to the next thousands of packages were arriving on a daily basis. And my husband at the time newly ran, I don't even know if we were married at that point, he and I found ourselves in my one bedroom with boxes sky high and opening them and people Who subscribed to the magazine then would get it before a newsstand.
So they had already read the article. They were touched and they started sending me, because you could get an address back then. Started sending me to my home, pajamas, books, cash, letters, and one letter from a company said, if you will please send us your 501 C3, we would like to give you a grant. And I remember looking at my husband and what amidst all the boxes saying, what is this thing?
5 0 1 C. And what is this? And that's when I did my homework and I realized and I said to him, this is now responsibility. This isn't something that I can, you know, I can do without thought. If these people are going to help me, these pajamas are being entrusted to me and It has, it can grow. So that's, that was the beginning of the official pajama program.
Wow, the world works in mysterious ways, eh? Universe, the unseen forces, God, anything you want to call it, whatever you believe in, that's it.
Laura Rotter
So that was the early 2000s, is that correct? Yes, we became official, we got the 501c3 in 2001. 2001. And so did you end up building an organization around this? What happened?
Genevieve Petturo
Yes, yes.
Laura Rotter
With donations.
Genevieve Petturo
Yes, that first press article got a lot of volunteers and because it was a national magazine in other cities and states and.
Laura Rotter
Oh wow, I didn't even realize that. Yeah.
Genevieve Petturo
And people wanted to help so we learned how to form volunteer chapters And they were wonderful. And, you know, and I remember Jerry and Anna saying, okay, what do we do in, in New Jersey?
And Anna said, what do I do in Manhattan? And I said, I don't know. What do you want to do? We'll, we'll figure it out. And, and we did, and that model has worked for 20 some years. So, and Anna is still with us and Jerry retired. It's grown incredibly. Now there are 40 plus chapters, all volunteered, a couple of reading centers.
It's grown, I guess we will be 20. Three years officially this year and you know, I've I've always I started speaking because people started to want to hear the story and it groom blossomed into for me an eye opening experience of meeting people who said I've always wanted to do this and I was afraid.
Can you tell me more about how you did it? And I realized that there were a lot of people who were putting their dreams on the back burner and they were afraid. And I said, I, I know about that. I can help you. I can talk about it. And the more I spoke, the more people would come out of the woodwork saying, You know, I, I know I'm a CPA, but I really wanted to open a dance studio.
Like, wow, you know, do it, you know? And I was in a position to say, I can tell you it's the best life ever. And I can also tell you what to expect that you're going to need. Somebody's going to have to hold your hand. So I wanted to write the book. And so three years ago, I passed the baton of executive director after I did that job for 20 years after, you know, I'm still founder and the president of our board, Jamie, she was, is an attorney.
And she said, I would love to take over if you're serious and you want to go and write your book and speak. Yeah, so that's what I'm doing now.
Laura Rotter
I love hearing your story, Genevieve, and, and hearing how it has progressed. And I, I feel like I can speak for my listeners who many are maybe just like what you talked about, someone who's a CPA, but really feels drawn to something else.
And you've said several things, but I'd, I'd, I'd love to hear. Some of the advice you might have. I mean, what you said, first of all, was that you were drawn by your heart so that I think we all have a sense that if you just stuck with your head and made a list of the pros and cons, you never would have done what you did.
You went ahead and did, um, I mean, for one thing, you said you had financial obligations and not a lot of savings. You did also mention that you didn't have to do it alone, at least financially, that you were sharing the burden, if you will, with someone else, because that's often and, and, and that's why I, you know, love helping people figure out the puzzle of their finances.
That's often a sticking point. I mean, when I, you know, yeah. went ahead and changed my life. I had all these obligations that I had to unravel, whether it was selling my big house or selling my vacation home or knowing that my kids were no longer on the payroll. I mean, there are real dollar and cents things one thinks about.
So if you could share how you thought about that, as well as other things that came up, your ego, et cetera.
Genevieve Petturo
Oh, yeah, sure. Well, first financially, the man that I met. He could take care of himself financially. It was very hard. So I, I mentioned, I owned my, my, um, co op. I sold it because I had to financially contribute and pay.
We couldn't go with a loan on his, and I was happy to, and we said, okay, we'll rent for a little while. And we are still in that place. We're renting. So no regrets. That's why I want people to understand. I'm not saying it's easy. It's easy to follow your heart. And it's the most rewarding thing. I can, I can hold your hand through those decisions.
Are you going to sell something? Are you in a position or do you, are you smarter than I was? And do you have a nest egg? And do you have a way to, you know, work and do this? Are you going to be braver about asking for help? I was not, I was not. Maybe if I were, All those supportive people would have come out a lot earlier and I would have been able to put together a budget earlier and learn the ins and outs of being able to take a small salary to start, you know, I didn't because I didn't share my fears.
I felt and a lot of people feel this way. What are people going to think? Why am I throwing away 10, 20 years? I have real issues. I did not have children going to college. A lot of people do. I had a supportive man who turned into my husband. I can't tell you how many women will close the door and tell me I want to do this, but my husband won't let me.
I have to say, it's not a wrong decision. It's the wrong husband. Those are real obstacles. You know, those are real obstacles. I chose to sell You know, and rent and knew that wasn't a financial decision that I would benefit from in the long run, but I had an understanding husband who, who said, okay, if that's what we need to do, you need to, you need clearly need to follow your heart.
But the funny thing is, and it's really the saving grace. Is when all your brain talk is negative, beware why you can't don't you see this what's the reality who's going to support you because that's what your brain says, mine said that loud and clear. And my heart was this meek little quiet voice saying, I don't know the answers, but, but she needs help.
You need to help these kids. Look how happy they are when they get their pajamas. That's more important than the big bad brain is saying, come on, you know what, you're going to really get yourself in major trouble. And if you continue to listen to your heart, you will find one day it's witches. It's position.
And it starts to get louder and lead you and your brain gets to a point where it almost literally says, okay, I guess she's not going to listen to us. We're smart. So now we'll help. And it finds a way to support. Your heart voice. It's crazy. But other, I know it's true because other founders, especially founders are a breed that, you know, we, we are moved by a moment, an incident, something, you know, that has happened that leads our heart to make decisions.
And it's so true. We all say the same thing. One day, the power switches. And the brain comes up with ways to help the heart make it happen and and that's what happened a few years in
Laura Rotter
Beautiful, beautiful. And I think we as women can touch into that heart center, but we're taught culturally. to ignore it, to push it aside, to, to not trust it.
And I am drawn to share that I echo what you've heard other women say. When I first told my husband that I was leaving Wall Street, it put a tremendous strain on our marriage. And he said, that wasn't our agreement. Our agreement was you're the primary breadwinner. And I said, I don't remember signing that contract.
I enjoyed what I was doing and I don't enjoy it anymore. And it was very scary and, and helpful. And it sounds like you did the same work of like, well, but we could do this if we sell the big house, we can do this if we're no longer supporting a vacation home and just looking at, and I never, I never regret the decision that I made.
And it was very scary. And, you know, you don't know how it's going. to turn out. And we all struggle with our different traits. And so I'd love to hear what is it that you're, that you're drawn to now? I know you're, you've published two books and you're speaking. Where are you going next?
Genevieve Petturo
I want to, I want to speak.
I want, I want to, to be a cheerleader for individuals who are thinking about making a change. And also in the time we're in, it's about finding meaning and finding purpose. We learned that the hard way through COVID when it was near, near death experience for all of us. And I think we're seeing leadership change and we're seeing employee leader, boss relationships change and become fragile because there was never an understanding of we're in this together.
Let's talk about what's important. Let's talk about why you wanted to be here. Let's talk about what your role is and and how you can wake up wanting to come and contribute something personal here, not just take an order. And that's been a real alarm bell. To a lot of bosses and some of them can become leaders and some of them I think retired because they said that that's I can't do that don't want to do that and we're looking at leadership that's purposeful and we're looking at the human connection that's now being we have to take it to another level and we're seeing the world being driven by emotion and it's important it's important for us to have to go through this Upheaval to get to the other side of feeling worthy and feeling valuable and feeling heard and feeling like we're part of something bigger, not only our family, our community, our job, but the world at large, you know, my, my theme is, is be a voice that moves the world.
And how do you become one? I just did my second Ted talk and that's the, that's the title of it. How do you become a voice that moves the world? Because we, we are all capable of it and there are some groups and some individuals out there who have that ability to inspire, we all do, and some are ready and some want with their message to be a leader that can demonstrate integrity isn't about taking care of yourself, it's about it taking care of others.
Laura Rotter
There are a number of things you said there that I just sort of want to point on because they resonated with me. You used the word worthy and I think That for many of us, that could be a difficult word. We don't realize it till we hear it that, you know, am I worthy of taking my message out into the world?
And so I just want to acknowledge that. I think that we just by virtue of being who we are, we were in a culture and I know you've, you've. Modeled that perhaps in your life that we're only worthy if we work 23 hours a day, and if we have big titles and and know where we're worthy just by virtue of who we are.
So I think that's an important word to point out. And then you also talked about the world is ruled by emotion. And I've really come to recognize, as you said, by being drawn to By your heart, Genevieve that it's important to acknowledge our emotions. You know, when I came to do this money work, people would say you want to show people their emotions so they could make decisions and bypass them almost.
And I'm like, No, our emotions are important in all our decisions. Of course, we need to actually understand the numbers, but not to ignore our emotions. Embrace our emotions. What what comes up for you and understand them. for having me. And and have them be a part of your decision making process. So I acknowledge those two things.
Genevieve Petturo
It's what you said, Laura. That's what connects us. That's what really makes a lasting impact on one another and connects us. That's what we remember. You know, who was it that said, it's not what you say to people is how you make them feel. It's so simple. Where did we lose that? And you mentioned before, women are much better at it, and I think men are learning.
First, women are coming into our power, which is a beautiful thing, and men are learning that they, that they can wear their heart on their sleeve a little bit. They can ask questions and want their team and their employees To feel good about being there, not just hire somebody to do a job and get a good rating, they, they are learning how important it is.
That somebody wants to be there and maybe they learn the hard way too many people quit and they have to spend a lot of money retraining. Okay, whatever it takes, whatever it takes, if they're learning that it's important to, to connect and emotions are part of that.
Laura Rotter
Yes. And to have leaders that acknowledge the whole person and acknowledge that you are a strong worker and you have children that need to be picked up after school.
Yeah. Right. I'm going to tear up again. So as we come to the end of our conversation, Genevieve, how has your definition of success shifted over these last 20 plus years?
Genevieve Petturo
You know, it's, it's going to sound funny when I say this word, but I want peace. And that doesn't mean quiet. It means inner peace. And it's taken me 60 years to realize that's at the bottom of what I want and I think some other people want.
I want to know the decisions I made are decisions I can stand proudly behind. I want to know that I can say what I mean. I want to know that I can ask for what I want. I want to feel comfortable setting goals that might not be comfortable for other people. I want to know that I'm on the right path because it feels right and all of that to me means peace, inner peace, and that's where I want to live and and for so many people and for me for so many years early on, my head was not at peace.
Laura Rotter
And would you say that it is now? Because I, I, I think it remains a practice for me.
Genevieve Petturo
Yes, it remains a practice for me. I meditate every day for that to bring my head into my heart so that I feel peace more every day, you know, because obviously. Running a business, living life, your brain is set up for fight or flight and it throws all these what ifs in your way and I'm aiming for more, more time that my, I can calm my mind and bring it down to my heart, which is literally what I say.
Like come into my heart, just, just calm down and, and just live in my heart for a while because it feels so good. And I know what I'm doing is right. And if I make a mistake, I, I trust that I'll be able to turn or pivot or make a change. And I just have to trust. And I just have to say this piece feels so good.
I just want more. more of that.
Laura Rotter
Thank you for sharing that. So is there anything you'd like to make sure that you've said to our listeners before we end our conversation, Genevieve?
Genevieve Petturo
You know, Laura, I would just like to offer if anybody wants to brainstorm or wants to talk or wants to tell, if they've never told anybody else what they want to do, and they're, and they just are afraid they're going to get, you know, shot down like, like I was, I promise I will be a cheerleader.
I've heard many, many stories and I've held many hands. And if I can be that person for you for an hour, just reach out.
Laura Rotter
So I will definitely include your website. Yeah, they can reach me through there. This, and I will also link to your books and it's also a free resource you have. What's your purpose? Is that the resources?
Genevieve Petturo
Yeah, also on my website, look at the tabs and you'll see an exercise to find your purpose. Take the exercise for an hour and a half. Do everything it says, which means be alone, pen and paper, not your laptop. Quiet, 90 minutes minimum and no disturbances. You can drink a glass of wine, you can have a cup of tea, you can have a pizza, you can have a donut.
I don't care as long as you're alone. You have 90 minutes and paper and pen and follow the exercise and I think it will be revealing.
Laura Rotter
Oh, interesting. I'm going to do it. So thank you so much for taking the time to be my guest, Genevieve. I really enjoyed our conversation.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Genevieve Petturo, founder of Pajama Program. My takeaways are number one, decide what you want and go after it. After hosting a show on her college radio station, Genevieve decided that she wanted to go into radio and television. So she woke up each morning, picked up her rotary phone while still in her pajamas, and called every number on the list of radio and TV stations that she had compiled.
She was eventually offered a job at a radio station that was owned by Group W, which also owned a TV syndication company. My second takeaway, pursue projects that excite and motivate you. Genevieve was so motivated to find a position in radio and TV that she was able to reframe the no's she received during her job search as a challenge rather than as a rejection.
And again, she was able to When working in PR, Genevieve was excited to call the press to get publicity for her company's shows. She shared with me that she loved to see the articles come out and the positive reaction of readers to the stories. My third takeaway? Be open to listening to your heart and not just your head.
Genevieve describes finding herself in a quiet moment, hearing a voice speaking to her from the depths of her heart. This voice asked if this is the next 30 years of your life, is it enough? She was making money, but was she truly contributing? Whose life was she touching? That voice was the first step towards a decision that would ultimately change the trajectory of Genevieve's life and lead to the founding of Pajama Program.
And finally, know that following your heart is isn't easy. Genevieve shared that she had to make some tough financial decisions when she left her successful career to found a national nonprofit organization, but she never regretted that decision. She says it has been the most rewarding thing she has ever done.
She sees her mission now as being a cheerleader for individuals who are thinking of following their heart. And making a change. If this has struck a chord with you, don't hesitate to schedule a call with me. I would love to help you come up with a financial plan to help you move closer to your purpose.
If you're enjoying this podcast, please don't forget to subscribe. So you won't miss my episode next week with another. Interesting guest. And if you love the show, a rating and a review would be greatly appreciated and will help others just like you to find it. Thank you so much.
Narrator
Thanks for listening to making change with your money. Certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors. com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer. Please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.