A conversation with Jann Freed, a Leadership Development and Change Management Consultant with The Genysys Group. Jann is an Executive Coach, author, and host of the "Becoming a Sage" podcast.
Jann Freed, PhD, is a Leadership Development and Change Management Consultant with The Genysys Group. She assists organizations and individuals in making purposeful change. Jann does this by facilitating vision based strategic planning and executive coaching. Her focus is on helping organizations and individuals get from where they are to where they want to be.
Jann shared that she grew up in a small town in Iowa. Though it was a farming community, her dad wasn't a farmer, but was the banker of three small towns. He was fiscally conservative, and made it clear to Jann and her sister that "money doesn't grow on trees." Jann remembers always having a summer job.
Neither of Jann's parents had a traditional college experience or degree, so it was important to them that their children attend college; the importance of education, grades and studying was very much stressed. Jann loved school and loved studying, and was an outstanding student. She graduated with a major in business and pursued her MBA while employed in the management training program of the largest bank in Iowa.
Soon after graduating from business school, she received a phone call from her alma mater asking if she'd be interested in teaching. She applied for the position and loved the work so much that she felt like she would do it even if they weren't paying her! She enjoyed the courses she was teaching, marketing and organizational behavior, and she liked student life and being on campus so much that she stayed for 30 years!
"Whatever I'm doing, I'm always kind of weaving in: what difference are you making? What impact are you having? How are you thinking about your influence as a leader on others? Are you thinking about that on a daily basis?" - Jann Freed
Key takeaways:
- You can’t get those 2 hours back. Jann enjoyed her 30 year career as a college professor, teaching business management and marketing courses, but the two hour commute was wearing on her. It suddenly became very clear to her that, if she was going to do what she felt she was being called to do, she needed to change her job.
- Give yourself time to retire from a profession that is an intrinsic part of your identity. Jann spent five years letting go of her teaching career. She had been studying aging and sage-ing, and learned that it takes about five years to transition emotionally. Jann says to start exploring and discovering while you’re still employed and have a paycheck.
- When making a big life transition, consider putting rituals in place to help let go. Jann decided to take the bus rather than fly to a conference in Chicago in order to accomplish her ritual project. She took the faculty directory and, during the 5 hour trip there and then back, she wrote about 110 postcards to those she wanted to thank without telling them she was leaving.
- Recognize the value of relationships. Jann makes a point of keeping in touch with friends, texting and otherwise connecting. She notes that, as we age, we really do have to be thoughtful and stay in touch with the people we really like and enjoy. Also, be sure to find ways to meet new people, perhaps through an online course, which is how Jann and I met.
About the guest:
As a former professor for decades, Dr. Jann decided to practice what she was teaching and preaching. She says she is out to retire the word “retirement.” We are not retiring from life, but moving onto something else. Jann believes it takes time and intentional thought to successfully move on to what’s next in life.
This awakening led her on a research journey that resulted in her book Leading with Wisdom: Sage Advice from 100 Experts. One chapter that really resonated was “Leaders Live Their Legacy.” So Dr. Jann did a deep dive on legacy work and set out to interview gurus. From this work, she created the concept of Breadcrumb Legacy™ and it became her latest book Breadcrumb Legacy: How Great Leaders Live a Life Worth Remembering.
Dr. Jann also hosts the “Becoming a Sage Podcast” where she interviews thought leaders on the wisdom of life and work. She also writes the “Leading Edge” column for Training Magazine which is published in print and online.
Linkedin:- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jannfreed/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jann.freed.9
Instagram:- https://www.instagram.com/drjannfreed/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/FreedJann
Website:- http://www.jannfreed.com
Email address: jannfreed@jannfreed.com
Interested in booking a free consultation? Schedule a call.
Stay connected:
Connect with Laura on LinkedIn
@Rotters5 on Twitter
Connect with Laura on Facebook
Subscribe to my YouTube channel
Subscribe to my newsletter
Get your free copy of Unlock Your Money Blocks Workbook : Your step-by-step guide to unlocking your blocks to financial freedom.
Disclaimer: Please remember that the information shared on this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment or financial advice. It’s for informational purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.
Jann Freed
Whatever I'm doing, I'm always kind of weaving in what difference are you making? What impact are you having? How is, you know, are you thinking about your influence as a leader on others? Are you thinking about that on a daily basis?
Narrator
Welcome to making change with your money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now here's your host, Certified Financial Planner, Laura Rotter.
Laura Rotter
I am so excited to have as my guest today, Dr. Jan Freed, a leadership development and management change consultant with the Genesis Group. A former professor, Dr. Jan is on a journey to retire the word retirement. She's published several books, including Leading with Wisdom, Sage Advice from 100 Experts, And her latest book, Breadcrumb Legacy, How Great Leaders Live a Life Worth Remembering. Dr. Jan also hosts a podcast, Becoming a Sage podcast, where she interviews thought leaders on the wisdom of life and work. And she also writes the Leading Edge column for Training Magazine, which is published in print and online. So welcome Jan to the Making Change With Your Money podcast.
Jann Freed
Thank you very much. I'm honored to be here.
Laura Rotter
I'm honored you are my guest and I'm going to start with the same question I start all my interviews with, which is what was money like in your family growing up?
Jann Freed
That's a great question.
Well, my dad, I grew up in a very small town in Iowa. But my dad was the banker of three small towns, so the financial question is kind of interesting because it's a I grew up in a farming community, but I didn't really grow up on a farm and so my dad is the banker new.
Everybody and knew everybody's finances kind of. Okay. But I would say I grew up in a conservative family. I mean, it was even though he was the banker, you know, he made it very clear that, you know, money did not grow on trees and that we had to get part time jobs in the summer. I mean, I always had a summer job.
So I would say I grew up in a fiscally conservative family.
Laura Rotter
And did you have siblings?
Jann Freed
One sister, she's two years younger, and she actually lives outside of Austin, Texas now, but, and I still live in Iowa, I live in Des Moines, the capital, but just one sister. I remember one time getting kind of, oh, I don't like the word jealousy, but Or jealous, but I remember saying to my dad, you know, I was probably in fifth grade and I said, you know, so and so got X, Y, Z for Christmas.
You know, she got all these gifts, you know, and we got, we got gifts, but it wasn't quite what I wanted or wasn't what she had or something. I can't remember. And I remember my dad said, just remember what you got was paid for in cash and don't always assume that what they got was paid for, you know, it could have been on credit.
So anyway, my dad was not very big on using credit or if he did, he, he would, because he was a banker, he would never have wanted to pay any kind of interest.
Laura Rotter
And it's also, Jen, a great message that you never know how people are paying for things.
Jann Freed
That's right.
And you can't. That was what he was trying to communicate because he probably did know what some of these people, how they were buying stuff.
But, you know, he's not going to tell me. But yeah, I think it was a good, good lesson learned. \
Laura Rotter
So you've shared that you were from a fiscally conservative house. Were, did you just expect that you were going to go to college? Obviously your, your dad was educated.
Jann Freed
Well, that's interesting because he actually fell into banking.
So he went, you know, he served in World War II and really didn't have a chance to go to college. And so he was really kind of a self-made businessman. And my mom worked in, like, a, a retail store, and so, since both, my mom was actually trained as a lab technician, but both of them never really had your traditional college experience or college degree, so nothing was more important to them than going to college, so education, grades, studying, all of that was very reinforced and stressed.
And so it's kind of ironic. I never thought I'd be a college professor, but I love school. I love studying. I did well, and I just kept going to school and I fell into college teaching. I wasn't planning on that. And then I, I loved it. So, when I look back, it's kind of interesting because they really stressed education and that message got through. My sister has a master's in music therapy, and she actually help create the program because she would have graduated when she graduated.
She would have graduated like, in 1980, and then she created the program. There was no music therapy program at the University of Iowa, and she helped create it. So anyway, so I think it really is interesting how when you stress something and make people realize the value and how important it is that it really does influence decisions you make and directions you go.
Laura Rotter
Yes, and as you know, Jan, it could influence either way. You could feel that the messages that you got from your parents were a positive influence, and you can choose that direction. Or you can say, Oh, there is like no way I'm going to become an academic.
Jann Freed
Yeah, that's true. And some people do that. That's true. That's, that's a good point.
Laura Rotter
And it's also interesting that your parents did not have the traditional. College education. It was therefore so important for them that you did because I actually interviewed someone where that was not the case that the parents felt sort of jealous of the fact that she was able to have a traditional education and they were not. So it's a testament to your parents and how much they really wanted you to have, you know, more choice.
Jann Freed
And another, another message that wasn't quite so subtle, you know, my dad said, and remember if you get married during college, We will not pay for your college. You know, okay, fine. I mean, I wasn't even close to that, but yeah, no, that was another message, you know, that you need to get that degree.
Laura Rotter
So, oh, I like that message. Yeah. Which is tied to your ability to support yourself no matter what happens in your life. So what did you major in when you were in college, Jann?
Jann Freed
Oh, I did major in business management and I think it was because, you know, it's kind of what I knew. That's what my dad was doing or, you know, he was in business. And so, I did end up majoring in business management, but I almost had a, well, I had a minor in Spanish and then I almost had a minor in art. So creativity was always very important to me too. So, you know, I took jewelry courses and so anyway.
Laura Rotter
Yeah, both you and your sister sound like you have sort of a creative.
Jann Freed
Yeah, there's a creative bend. Yeah.
Laura Rotter
And were either of your parents artistic or musical?
Jann Freed
Well, my dad played the organ. He played the piano. He was probably, well, my mom sewed. I could never, I didn't have those skills, but she knew how to knit and crochet and sew. Now my sister got those skills. I got creative skills that are really more freelance and hers are, my, my sister got the skills that are more kind of prescribed.
You know, you follow directions, you follow. So anyway, it's all very interesting. Those are good connections you're making.
Laura Rotter
Uh, so do you cook?
Jann Freed
I do cook, but what's interesting is I've become a really pretty good cook, but I'm still not a very good baker. And I say, well, baking is a science and cooking is an art.
And so, you know, with cooking, you can have a splash here and a dash there, but with baking, you better follow directions. And I've had a lot of flops because, you know, I either get hungry. Or I don't read it right or, you know, I make a mistake and it's like, well, that didn't turn out. So I think that's interesting too, don't you? I mean.
Laura Rotter
Yes, it's in keeping with what you said, because it's very true. Baking, you have to follow. It's, it's, it's chemistry. It's science. You have to follow the ingredients and cooking, which is why I asked, it’s much more creative, much more creative. Yeah. Bring yourself to it.
Jann Freed
Yeah. Much more forgiving.
Laura Rotter
So you majored in business and what was your first job out of college, like what would you suggest?
Jann Freed
Yeah, it's kind of funny. So I majored in business and of course I got out, I got out of college in, you know, the late, very late 70s and the economy was not good. And there was one thing I did not want to go into banking. Okay. Banking seemed very boring to me. So I interviewed and out of the interviews I had, the best offer was from the largest bank in the state of Iowa, and it was to be on their management trainee program.
And I really did not want banking. And so I started getting my MBA while I was working at the bank, because they had a reimbursement program and I was single and I was paying for this. So, and then once I got my MBA, I fell it. I got a call saying, you know, would you want to teach? And that led to. I said, well, I've never thought about it.
Why don't you think about it? So I applied and I got the job and then I loved it. So it is interesting how life works out, Laura.
Laura Rotter
So who called you? I'm curious, Jan. Like where was the phone call from? Now?
Jann Freed
So it was my alma mater. So that's where I had gone to college and they said, well, we heard you're getting your MBA.
And I said, yes. And they said, and I said, but I've never taken any education courses. Oh, you don't need education courses to be a teacher. No, you just have to have a day. And then if you like it, you're going to have to go on and get a PhD, which I did later. Yeah. A little bit later.
Laura Rotter
That's so interesting. So I, some of my career trajectory echoed yours. I graduated in early eighties and as an English lit major, which really was not going to get me very far. And then I decided to, uh, Get my MBA, and I was in a credit training program at a small middle market bank, and they paid my tuition.
Jann Freed
Oh, really? Okay.
Laura Rotter
But I quickly recognized that working as a lending officer in a small middle market bank, I was never going to earn a lot of money, so. So that, that was when I then, you know, went, moved to wall street, just seemed like a better way to, but nobody called me and asked me if I wanted to teach.
Jann Freed
No, but at least you got to wall street. That's great. It's just no one invited me to wall street. So that's good.
Laura Rotter
But it's interesting, Jen, that they saw you as someone who had that skillset, I guess it was a small enough school or a small enough department.
Jann Freed
Yeah, it was a small enough school. And I had really kind of, Excelled there and so I feel lucky. I feel very lucky because I did love it. Now again, I didn't make a lot of money, but I love the flexibility and we have three, three grown children now and I loved it. You know, I mean, when I first started teaching, I thought they don't even have to pay me.
Now I was single. I'm like, they don't even have to pay me. I like this. I like this too much. They don't even, they shouldn't pay me. I like it too much.
Laura Rotter
Jen, could you share with our listeners what are the skills that made you feel so comfortable in front of a classroom?
Jann Freed
Oh, I think, well, first of all, I was only four years older than the seniors that I was teaching.
Okay. So it was a little challenging at first, especially with male students, but I think the skill set is. You know, making presentations, you know, and, and preparing for class is kind of like studying for class. And so, you know, I had, I was able to, you know, very good at focusing and organizing and sharing my passion with topics that.
I, I was teaching marketing and I was teaching organizational behavior and I, I loved kind of the study of people and so I think it was just the passion and, and relate, and I love student life. I like being on campus.
Laura Rotter
That I can see. Keeps you young, though of course you were young.
Jann Freed
But I think, but it still, it does, you know, I mean, you know, but then after, you know, I didn't plan to be there 30 years, but then 30 years later, it's like, oh gosh, I really am 30 years older than these students.
Early on, it didn't, it didn't seem to, it didn't make a difference, but then all of a sudden, it's like, yeah, gosh, this is, this has been a long time and, and students. I felt like I was staying the same age and they were all getting younger. It's kind of funny.
Laura Rotter
It's true. I'm, I'm curious how your role shifted over that time and, and just as importantly, how the students shifted over that time.
Jann Freed
Well, it's interesting because I've been asked this question several times about, do you think students were getting brighter or whatever, you know, and I think some of the skills of students Went downhill, and I'll tell you why, because before, you know, home computers, laptops, before everybody had their own computer, you know, we would edit and edit and edit before we would type our papers, because when we typed them, then they were done.
And I would find that students would just type it in and sometimes not even read it or expect, expect spellcheck to do all their work, you know, and I said, no, you know, one of the biggest mistakes I made typing is form and or you're using the raw, you know, instead of T. O. O. And spellcheck isn't going to catch that.
You have to read it. And so I found that the writing skills I felt went down except for the really, really good students. And then they're going to, they're going to do what they have to do. But overall, it was kind of like, okay, I typed it in and I'm going to hand it in. And I'm like, or send it in or whatever.
And I'm like, no, this is not good. This is not good. So I think students over time, I think it'd be tough to be teaching full time now because of the culture and cancel culture and what's going on with diversity and people people have been empowered because of social media. I think everybody's very opinionated and they think they're right.
And I think early on, I mean, I think respect has kind of gone down too. So I think early on, you know, as a professor, people believe what you say and, and I think towards the end of my career, it was kind of like, I'm going to challenge you because I read it on Facebook and I know it's true, you know.
Laura Rotter
And how did your role change? Did you teach different subjects? How were you keeping yourself Engaged?
Jann Freed
You know, I taught strategic management principles, marketing, marketing. I mean, not all at the same year, but so I taught a variety of courses. But then towards the end of my career. I was awarded an endowed chair in leadership and character development, and that gave me more time to focus on leadership as a field.
And so that was nice and then. You know, in the summers, I would do research and write, you know, write articles, write books. Four of my books are co authored, only the last two am I the sole author. But I was able to find traditional publishers for each book. Now, you know, that doesn't seem to be so important these days, but for me in higher education, it was important.
Laura Rotter
Yeah, and I think it remains important relative to self publishing. Did you always enjoy writing, Jan? I mean, I wouldn't traditionally think someone who says I majored in business would say, would be a writer.
Jann Freed
You know, I did, you know, with a liberal arts Even though I was a business management major, it wasn't a business college, so I was, you know, in a liberal arts college.
And so we had to take a variety of courses and almost every course, major papers, major research papers, and I loved it. I loved that. So it is interesting. I mean, I, you know, I didn't love it and think, oh, I want to be a college professor, but I just loved. I love that. Yeah.
Laura Rotter
Oh, interesting. So can you describe how you came to the point where you realized you no longer wanted to be teaching full time?
Jann Freed
In the back of my mind I thought, well, when my youngest, Um, And my youngest sons are twins, so when my youngest sons graduate from college, you know, I, I can afford to take a risk, you know, and my husband supported that. And the main, I think, initiative, or the main reason, I guess, is I had to drive an hour each way to get to my work.
So, 2 hours a day. Now, I, and we don't live in Iowa because traffic is bad. I'm driving 100 miles a day. And I was in a carpool. I was in several carpools over the 30 years, but, you know, all of a sudden I thought, you know, I can't get those 2 hours back those 2 hours. You know, all of a sudden I started thinking, what else could I do with those 2 hours?
If I were not driving and that that just really became very clear to me. I want to get more involved in the community, but I can't because I work out of town. I want to do more writing, but I can't because I'm driving a carpool most days or some days. So it just became very clear to me that. If I want to do what I think I want to do, I have to make a change in my job and so then I basically retired from my college job, but I retired early where my colleagues are like, you're doing what, you know, you're too young. You're too young to leave this. And I'm like, no, I want to leave it while I'm young enough to still do something else. And so that was kind of my motivation.
Laura Rotter
Which as you recognize is a very big deal, Jan, right? Like, it wasn't like you were teaching even for a decade. It was from the time you left school almost, you were teaching and it was your identity.
Jann Freed
That's right. And we, you and I both know how hard it is to let go of your identity. And so I basically spent the last five years of my career, or my career, teaching career, letting go. Now, I didn't tell anybody I was doing that, but I was really practicing what I had been learning through my research about aging and saging.
So I was really putting into practice what I really wanted to focus on when I left. And I think it takes about five years. Some advice I give to people is while you're still employed and you have a paycheck, start exploring, start discovering. You know, don't wait until you're done. Try to do it while you're still, you know, getting a paycheck so that you feel like you have some freedom to, you know, join some organization.
I joined an executive women's group in Des Moines, so that gave me like an anchor. It gave me a network. It gave me peers. It gave me friends that, you know, so I wasn't all alone when I let go of what I'd been doing for 30 years.
Laura Rotter
Jen, you said, it sounded almost when you thought about the wasting the two hours commuting that
something was already calling to you. Is that true? Did you have an idea?
Jann Freed
True. It is true. And I did have an idea. I had a professional mentor and he was with the University of Illinois, Chicago, and I met him at a professional conference. We stayed in touch. I wouldn't have any of my books, Laura, if he hadn't coached me, so he coached me. He gave me feedback.
He gave me advice. He told he helped me learn the ropes and I wouldn't have any of my books if he had not been my mentor and he sent me the book. Called, From Aging to Saging, A Revolutionary Approach to Growing Older. He sent me this book with a post it note in it saying, Read this, Then let's talk. Baby boomers are not going to know what to do with the rest of their lives.
And I read the book and I was just captivated. And then he said, so he and I talked and then he said, you know, they have a certification. Why don't you go through their certification? And I said, well, do I really have to do that? You know, I have a PhD. I read the book. He said, no, the certification will give you a network.
They will feel more, you'll feel more like you're a part of them. If you kind of paid your dues. So I went through their certification process, which is much easier now because of technology than it was then. And
Laura Rotter
You had to be there live? What, what, what made it a harder?
Jann Freed
Well, I, you know, they have an intern, like I had to do an internship of so many hours, videotape myself.
Now you can do it on a phone. So I had to like set up a video and a tripod and, and, and really kind of put on workshops. Market these workshops so that I could get recordings and then send those recordings. Now we can just send it via computer. I had to mail these recordings. You know, to my sponsor or mentor, and then she would give me feedback.
Um, I mean, technology just makes it so much easier, you know, so, but I went through all that I paid my dues and it paid off, it paid off and I did learn a lot in the process. I met people, I do have a network and I'm pretty connected with saging international, which is the organization. That is the certification. Yeah.
Laura Rotter
So you knew pretty early on that you wanted to research this time of life. Is that yes?
Jann Freed
Yes and I and I think it's because my mentor Elmer. Elmer said, you know Jan, this is going to be a huge area I see it as they're going to baby boomers are going to need coaching. They're going to need help how to navigate We're living longer.
We're healthier for the most part and he said they're going to need help and I think you can really Make this your niche and I'm drawn to all that, you know, like, for instance, I listened to podcasts, like, wiser than me, you know, with, um, I think we talked about this in the class you and I met with, uh, Julia.
Laura Rotter
Oh, yes.
Jann Freed
Yeah. Louise Dreyfuss, you know, and so wiser than me. I like to listen to Leslie Seymour. She has one called reinventing you or, you know, yeah, right. Yeah. Anyway, I, those are, I'm just drawn to this content. I'm just drawn, it's like a magnet, like I can't get away from it.
Laura Rotter
And how has it helped you with your reinvention? Can you think of specific?
Jann Freed
Well, I think definitely, I mean, like the five years that I was letting go without really telling anyone, it just really helped me with that transition. I was able to interview William Bridges, who is kind of a classic. Known for transitions before he died. I interviewed him twice for my not the latest book, but the book leading with wisdom.
And so learning all about that transition work, then help me make that transition. So I truly was practicing what I was reading and learning, and then I started integrating it into courses that I was teaching to undergrads and, you know, so I was integrating these concepts into those theories, and I developed a whole leadership course for undergraduates based on what I was learning that then became leading with wisdom book.
So, yeah, it definitely, basically. It just coached me so that I felt like I knew what I wanted to do, you know, rituals, you know, so I kind of had rituals that I developed to let go of my full time teaching job. Anyway.
Laura Rotter
Share one. I love ritual. I'm a big believer in ritual.
Jann Freed
Okay. All right. So I'll share one that I think. Okay. So, and I talk about this in my breadcrumb legacy book where I had a conference in Chicago and I happened to be president of this. Conference and as president, they would pay for all my expenses. So I could, I could fly, but I decided, no, I'm going to take what at the time was called the mega bus. So I can get there.
I mean, basically. Yes, you fly, but by the time I have to get to the airport and then get from the airport, I mean, this, this mega bus would drop me right off in front of my hotel in Chicago, downtown Chicago, where if I flew, then I have to figure out the train, or I have to figure out, you know. So, I figured the time is about the same and the bus was like nothing, cost 30 or something.
So I wanted to take the bus because I wanted to do a project and my project was, this was March and I was going to, I had permission from the dean or the provost. He knew that I was going to be done at the end of the year, but I said to him, I don't want to announce that I'm going to be leaving. I want to wait as long as possible because people just treat you like you're already dead.
And that's why I want, you know, I mean, if you say you're retiring, you have no value. You have no value. And I watched them. I watched people treat our previous president who was retired, who had retired the year before me. And people did they just, you know, here, this is beloved college president, but because we were in a search and he said he was going to be gone.
People just acted like he had no value and it just broke my heart. And I think it broke his. So I didn't want to be treated like that. And so the purpose said, look, you deserve it. Take as much time as you want. And we're not going to make if you told people in January, or you told people in April, we're not going to make any different, you know, we're going to hire a 1 year.
Temporary person while we do a search. So he said, you just decide it's fine. So the project was. I took the faculty directory, faculty staff directory with me to Chicago on the bus and one of my hobbies is I make postcards and postcards. I make all right, I use my photography for postcards and I also make postcards when I call quote postcards out of.
Some of my favorite quotes. And so I took a variety of postcards during the five hour trip there and the five hour trip home. I wrote like 110 postcards and I went through the faculty and staff directory and anyone I wanted to thank or send them, you know, and usually I was thanking them for something.
Okay. Or showing some gratitude, but I never mentioned I'm leaving. Okay. And then when I got back to the college, they have like, Okay. You know, inner office, intra office mail. So, you know, I don't have to pay postage or anything. I just drop them in the mail for internal people. And out of 110, I only had, like, 2 people say, are you okay?
Is everything okay? You're not, you're not ill or something. But 110, I only, but most people, as I would see them, they'd say, Oh, that was so nice. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Okay. And then a month later, it was announced that I was leaving. And then I had people say to me, Oh, now I know where you're coming from.
But I wanted to thank people without them knowing I was leaving. And that was kind of all part of my strategy. But it was a ritual because I think Too many people, you know, again, if I had waited until I was actually leaving, I may not have had the time. I may not have made the time. I might have felt differently, you know, whatever.
I wanted to do it. I just wanted to thank people. For things that they have done for me, you know, things like, oh, the I. T. and I. T. guy, you know, if I had a problem showing some kind of D. V. D. or something, you know, I could call him and he come running over, you know, and so just things that people had done in the cafeteria, you know, you always make it easy.
So that, you know, we don't have to wait in line forever, you know, whatever. And so that was a ritual that I, you know, it was very important for me to do. I wanted to have the time to do it. If I flew on an airplane, Laura, I wouldn't have done it. No, but I could spread out on this bus and I could, you know, so that's just one example of a ritual of that helped me let go. It helped me let go because I was able to say what I wanted to say to whomever.
Laura Rotter
I wanted to say that is so beautiful, Jann. Thanks for sharing that. I'm curious. So do you now teach workshops on legacy leaving because again, as, as someone who deals with, with families, I, I often think about facilitating discussions about legacy.
Jann Freed
Yeah, I haven't since the book came out in January, so I wouldn't say I've done a workshop per se, but I've been weaving this research in to my, whatever workshop I'm doing. Okay. I did do a keynote. For 600 people in May, and much of this was the kind of the focus of the keynote. So it is something that I want to do and want to do more of.
And but whatever I'm doing, I'm always kind of weaving in. What difference are you making? What impact are you having? How is, you know, are you thinking about. Your influence as a leader on others. Are you thinking about that on a daily basis? Because I say your bread, if you think about breadcrumb legacy, it can be your true north, your guiding, your moral compass.
It can be your guiding star, you know, keeping you, you know, front and center, keeping you in your lane.
Laura Rotter
So, have you defined for yourself what your breadcrumb legacy is?
Jann Freed
Well, I think, I don't know if you define it, but I, you know, I want to be thought of as honesty with kindness. I want to be thought of as somebody who, you know, enjoyed people and relationships and worked hard to sustain those.
I don't know if I would say define it, but I, I really try to think about, you know, because the subtitle of my book is, how great leaders live a life worth remembering. So I often think about how do I want to be remembered and then I try very hard to live that way. And no one's perfect. I mean, we make mistakes, we need to apologize, we need to maybe ask for forgiveness, but at least we're aware of what we're trying to do and when we're not on that path, we can course correct.
Laura Rotter
I'm curious as this transition has taken place in your life, one thing that's clear to me is your mission as you just sort of. What role, if any, I know you're active in your church. What role has faith played?
Jann Freed
That's an excellent question, Laura, because say, Jean is a spiritual concept. Now, spiritual, not tied to any religion.
Laura Rotter
Really? Okay. But spiritual in the sense of that. You believe that. You know, what you do affects others and that there is a higher power somewhere and that you do have a belief system in terms of what's right and what's wrong and a moral compass. Because saging is a, you know, like I said, a spiritual concept of wanting to be a good person.
How do you define that? And forgiveness is a big part of making amends. Forgiveness, that's a big part of saging. Repairing relationships. I mean, All of that is really important in what we call saging work. So.
Laura Rotter
So it has played a role spiritually.
Jann Freed
It has played a role. Yeah, it has played a role for sure. And actually in, in my last two leadership books, I do talk about compassion, empathy, forgiveness.
Those are important concepts because people make mistakes in the workplace, you know, and we can't hold grudges. We need to get over that if we're gonna be fair.
Laura Rotter
So I guess I, I hear you. Taking all those attributes and, and putting them under the umbrella of spirituality compassion.
Jann Freed
I think so. That's a good way to put it.
Laura Rotter
So, as we're getting towards the end of our conversation, I do like to get a sense of how your definition of success may have shifted. Over time, you know, I, I came from such a money oriented background, so it was a real definite redefinition of financial success as an academic. Maybe a different kind of redefinition.
Jann Freed
I think that's true because, you know, I knew going in, like I said earlier, my first couple of years. It's like, oh, this is so much fun. I feel guilty having them pay me. Okay. But I, too, have to pay my bills. So I think in the higher education world. You know, success, I think has a lot to do with respect and I didn't have to publish, but I felt like it was very rewarding for me to do.
So intrinsically rewarding, even though it was not easy, but I like the challenge. I kind of thrived on that. And I think success, you know, for me, it was. Success was really trying to balance work and family, career and family, because we had three children. We had twins, so we had, you know, one more than we even planned or thought.
So, you know, I really thought teaching gave me basically 4 months off, 3 months in the summer and basically a month at holiday time at December. So it was a really nice balance of being home, having flexibility. I didn't have to be there at 8. I didn't have to stay till 5, but it meant bringing work home, grading papers, prepping for class.
But I think for me, success was. Being able to have a respectable career and still spend that much time with my sons.
Laura Rotter
So you did feel you were successful and I'm curious now that you're no longer in the academic world, how are you defining success?
Jann Freed
I think for me now success is freedom and flexibility.
So if I have freedom and flexibility, so yes, I have, you know, I have a major consulting job that I'm working on now that kind of fell into my lap. It's challenging, but I enjoy it. And that's going to be for the year. I think it's going to be ongoing coaching and working with leadership teams and leaders individually.
But I have the freedom and flexibility of, you know, I don't have to do this. I'm not driving 2 hours a day and if I want to meet someone for coffee or lunch. And I have the, I do it, I make, I make relationships a priority and so for me, success is freedom and flexibility.
Laura Rotter
And, and what I'm also hearing Jan is that you really are a person with deep relationships, even the ritual you described of saying thank you to so many people that other people and your relationships with them seem. You know, first and foremost, like very important.
Jann Freed
You know, it is interesting because it will part of it. I am a relationship person anyway, but I just had a big, uh, college reunion last fall. I would run into different people and I would say, you know, they. You know, like, I'd say, now, who's your college roommate again?
And he'd say, like, one guy in particular. He said, oh, I roomed with so and so, and we roomed together for three years. And I said, do you talk to him? Are you in touch? Oh, not really. And then he said, now, who is your roommate? And I told him, and he said, well, are you guys in touch? And I said, oh, we probably talk weekly.
Really? Like what? Like I actually I just talked to my college roommate today and you know and I have other friends like that too, you know, you call different people for different reasons for you know, and, and different I don't call everybody weekly, but I do make relationships a priority and I think As we get older it becomes even more important because some relationships People move away. Some people die. My husband just lost his best friend from high school or since high school as best friends since high school, and we're going to that service in Michigan in two weeks, but people die. People get ill. People move away. And some relationships become unhealthy, you know, some people like middle age and beyond drink too much.
Divorces happen that that disrupts friendships with couples. So things happen. And so I think it's important to cultivate and maintain the ones that are important and healthy to you and then meet new people, you know, like the class you and I took together and we met each other, you know, you and I were talking about modern elder Academy earlier.
You know, I met a woman there that I hope we stay in touch forever. So.
Laura Rotter
I love that.
Jann Freed
Yeah, meet, you know, that ongoing learning I think is really important and that's how you meet people.
Laura Rotter
And as you've said, you need to be intentional, especially as you get older. You're not in the same classroom or dorm like you were in college. You're not thrown into relationships as you get older. You have to be. Very thoughtful, perhaps even putting it on your to do list. I try to do that, like text, reach out.
Jann Freed
You are so right, because I say that our friendships are often front end loaded. You meet friends through college, you meet friends through your kids, you have their school, their activity.
Like, we were, my husband and myself, we were soccer parents for years.
Laura Rotter
Oh, wow.
Jann Freed
And so, some of these people I thought we'd stay in touch with forever, and some of them we have, but not most of them. And, you know, here, you travel the tournaments and you spend all this time together. So you really do have to be thoughtful on making sure that the one the people you really like and enjoy and are healthy that you stay in touch with them.
And then you need to. Find other ways to meet people and online courses like you and I took and met each other. Those are really because you're, you're in a course because you're all interested in that topic. So again, kind of like minded.
Laura Rotter
Yes. And then being sure to reach out like we're doing one on one.
Jann Freed
Yes, that's true.
Laura Rotter
Because we all now see these, all these faces on a screen. That's very nice. But if you want to actually build a relationship, you need to then make time to get to know each other.
Jann Free
That's very true.
Laura Rotter
So Jan, this has been a wonderful conversation. Is there anything else you feel like you'd like to share before we come to an end?
Jann Freed
Well, I would just say that if I said anything interesting, uh, you learn more about me on my website, which is janfried. com, two N's and two E's. I'm active on LinkedIn, a little bit on Twitter, a little bit on Instagram, but LinkedIn is probably the best place. And my book, if you go to my website, if you're interested in my book, there's a 20 percent discount on the homepage on my website, and it takes longer than Amazon, but it's 20 percent less.
And so I think that would, yeah, I want people to know about that. But besides that, I think I, well, if they do, I do a monthly newsletter. Which is easy to read. And if they sign up, if they subscribe on my website, they would get the monthly newsletter and my monthly podcast where I interview people, as you mentioned earlier, called becoming a sage. And that would come right to your inbox. So, but no pressure only at this topic and interest you. So.
Laura Rotter
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation, Jann.
Jann Freed
Thank you too, Laura.
Laura Rotter
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jan Fried, a Leadership Development and Change Management Consultant with the Genesis
Group. And I'd like to share some of the takeaways I got from our conversation.
You can't get those two hours back. Jan enjoyed her 30 year career as a college professor, teaching business management and marketing courses.
But the two hour commute was wearing on her. It suddenly became very clear. That if she was going to do what she felt she was being called to do next, she needed to change her job. My second takeaway, give yourself time to retire from a profession that is an intrinsic part of your identity. Jan spent five years letting go of her teaching career. She had been studying aging and saging and learned that it takes about five years to transition emotionally. Jan says to start exploring and discovering while you're still employed and have a paycheck. My third takeaway. When making a big life transition, consider putting rituals in place to help let go. Jan decided to take the bus rather than fly to a conference in Chicago in order to accomplish her ritual project. She took the faculty directory of her college and during the five hour trip there, And then back, she wrote about 110 postcards to those she wanted to thank without telling them that she was leaving. And my last takeaway, recognize the value of relationships. Jan makes a point of keeping in touch with friends. Texting and otherwise connecting, she notes that as we age, we really do have to be thoughtful and stay in touch with the people we really like and enjoy, and also make a point of finding ways to meet new people,
perhaps through an online course, which is how Jan and I.Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss next week's episode and share it with a friend. If you love the show, a rating and a review would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
Narrator
Thanks for listening to making change with your money. Certified financial planner, Laura Rotter, specializes in helping people just like you, organized, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors.com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information