Making Change with your Money

Coaching For Starting Over: An Interview With Deborah Donenfeld, Owner of Photosynthesis Coaching

Episode Summary

A conversation with Deborah Donenfeld, owner of Photosynthesis Coaching. Deborah is a life coach specializing in supporting people in midlife who are starting over. If you would like a financial plan to support you as you rethink and reimagine the next chapter of your life please schedule a call: https://trueabundanceadvisors.com/lets-connect

Episode Notes

Deborah Donenfeld is the owner of Photosynthesis Coaching and a life coach specializing in supporting people in midlife who are starting over. Deborah coaches individuals and professionals in the realms of change and communication, helping people to navigate life when it feels like the rug has been pulled out from under them, and to learn how to choose trust over fear. She also works with professionals who want to communicate more authentically and effectively with clients, co-workers, bosses and those they manage.

Deborah shares her journey from working as a photographer to becoming a coach specializing in midlife transitions, influenced by her own experiences of divorce and financial upheaval, and describes the serendipitous email that opened the door to her true calling in coaching. She discusses the importance of having a guide to navigate life transitions, and the similarities between the people skills necessary to perform both as a photographer and as a life coach. 

The conversation explores the importance of practical and emotional soft skills in managing life changes, and the value of having tools and practices in place before crises occur. Deborah touches on personal growth, the balance between financial stability and time, and the transformative power of coaching.

“When I talk about having a guide, it's somebody to ask me the questions and help me get in touch with my intuition and get in touch with what I know, to help me celebrate the wins, because sometimes I don't think I could even see the wins. Remind me of the things in my toolbox, reflect back to me what I was saying or not saying, what my body language maybe had been saying that I wasn't saying. These are all the kinds of things that I do for my clients that I think would have been really helpful for me.” - Deborah Donenfeld

Key takeaways:

- Discover the links between one career to the next. Deborah worked for many years as a portrait photographer. She then decided to pursue coaching. What links the two for her is her ability and desire to connect with other people, and getting them to trust her so she can get to the essence of who they are.

- Have a backup plan. Information about a coaching program came into Deborah’s inbox, at a time when she began to have back problems that she feared would interfere with her photography work. She thought coaching could be her backup plan. Luckily, she no longer has back issues, and runs a successful coaching business!

- The more you put the energy out, the more you attract it back to yourself. Deborah noted that she didn’t make a conscious decision to focus more on coaching and less on photography. Instead, she loved the coaching so much she began spending more time thinking about it and doing it, so that her practice naturally grew. 

About the guest: 

Deborah Donenfeld is the owner of Photosynthesis Coaching, and a life coach specializing in supporting people in midlife who are starting over. She has been coaching for 13 years, and moved into this niche when her own life was turned upside down and she found herself in the position of navigating several big and painful changes all at once. Deborah coaches from the heart and compassionately helps her clients to work their edge and move through tough changes with grace.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/photosynthesiscoaching/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahdonenfeld/

Website: Photosynthesis Coaching

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Episode Transcription

Deborah Donenfeld

When I talk about having a guide, it's somebody to ask me the questions and help me get in touch with my intuition and get in touch with what I know to help me celebrate the wins. Cause sometimes I don't think I could even see the wins. Remind me of the things in my toolbox, reflect back to me what I was saying or not saying what my body language maybe had been saying that I wasn't saying. These are all the kinds of things that I do for my clients that I think would have been really helpful for me.  

Narrator

Welcome to making change with your money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves.

Now here's your host. Certified financial planner, Laura Rotter.  

Laura Rotter

I am so excited to have as my guest today, Debra Donenfeld. Debra is the owner of Photosynthesis Coaching and a life coach specializing in supporting people in midlife who are starting over. She's been coaching for 13 years and moved into this niche when her own life was turned upside down and she found herself in the position of navigating several big and painful changes all at once. 

Debra coaches from the heart and compassionately helps her clients to work their edge and move through tough changes with grace. So welcome Debra to the Making Change With Your Money podcast. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Thank you so much. It's. So nice to be here. 

Laura Rotter

I'm excited for our conversation. Yeah, me too. I'm going to start like I always do, which is what was money like in your family growing up, Deborah? 

Deborah Donenfeld

That's interesting.  Money in my family, you know, I grew up in a suburb of New York City.  And didn't want for anything. We had certainly enough to put food on the table, to clothe us, to do a lot of the things that we wanted to do. And yet  I think because. A lot of our neighbors were more wealthy than we were. 

It always felt like we didn't quite have enough. We were always, we, I say, my siblings and I, maybe I should just speak for myself. I was always being reminded that, well, we can't do that. They can do those things, but we can't do those things. They can have. That kind of clothing, but we can't have that. And so it was a very strange situation of  poverty mindset  in a situation where we were not in poverty.

And so that sort of led me to always quite feel like we don't have enough. We're not as good as the others. We can't do the things that other people can do.  We're always struggling, even though we weren't really.

Laura Rotter 

Thank you for sharing that. It's interesting. You're reminding me of, I think I read a study where people were asked, would you prefer to earn, I'm going to pick a number out of my head, like 50, 000 when everybody else earns 20, 000 or 50, 000 and everybody else earns a hundred.

It was probably a larger number than 50, like, and The preference is always to be the one earning more money, then there really is right and some scarcity. 

Deborah Donenfeld

That's an interesting question because I wonder the third question to me is, or, you know, option C earn 50, 000 for everybody else is earning 50, 000. I wonder how many people would choose to not be above or below, but to be like everybody else.

Laura Rotter

I think you're right. I think most would prefer to just everyone feel. And the younger you are, right before you know to ask for the clothes or the vacations or whatever else came up, you probably feel like everyone's the same. You're not even thinking about it, right? Not even noticing differences. Until you get to a certain age. 

I'm curious, Deborah, where are you in the birth order and how many siblings do you have? I'm the eldest. 

Deborah Donenfeld

I think, maybe if you know me, that's obvious.  

Laura Rotter

You're the responsible one? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, the responsible one. The one who sort of takes charge.  Yeah, and I have two younger siblings and mix of boys and girls. 

Laura Rotter

Yeah, I have a younger brother and then the youngest is my sister.

Just saying, I'm, I'm always curious since I've been doing these interviews. Was your brother treated any differently than you and your sister? Were there different expectations that you could sense? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, I think that's the key that I could sense growing up. Right. Right. My father was very hard on him in a lot of ways because he was really a hippie with long hair and he wanted to be, you know, and my father would make him get a haircut and, you know, he would just not have any of that in the house.

So I think in that way, it was. He was harder on him in that way.  I think that there were probably a lot of differences that I did not notice growing up and I think being the oldest, if you ask my siblings, I think they were probably had a bigger awareness of how I was treated as opposed to them. You know, I remember my sister,  I came home maybe during college or something and I spilled something on the table  and. 

She stood up and she said, Oh, my God, I can't believe you spilled something. I spill my milk every night. You never spill anything, nothing ever. You never do anything wrong. And I thought I had no idea this was all in there, you know, like I didn't even know this was a thing. So I think being the oldest sometimes you're maybe not as quite as aware.

As the younger siblings are of those differences. 

Laura Rotter

Yes, especially if there's a big enough age difference so that the two youngest are more of a couple. Right. Then, which it sounds like out of the house. I was out of the house before them. 

Deborah Donenfeld

I mean, there was pretty even I was, it was about two years in between each of us. But still, I left the house first, right? 

Laura Rotter

And what was the expectation or was there an expectation around education? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Oh, yes. The expectation is, you know, you're going to  do really well in school, get good grades so that you can get into a good college, and then you're going to,  you know, Go to college and get good grades so that you can get a good job.

There wasn't an, I wouldn't say that there was an expectation about like getting a master's or going to law school or being a doctor or anything like that.  Both of my siblings did go on to get to, to higher education. I did not, but there wasn't that expectation, but there certainly was the expectation of do well, get into a good school, do well, get a good job, climb the ladder, be loyal.

All of those things that were their generation, you know, that how they looked at work.

Laura Rotter

I was going to say that that exactly paralleling what you just said, Deborah, which is, it was a generational, not the expectation, of course, but of it. education is not necessarily generational, but the idea that you're going to be loyal to an employer, that you're going to stay somewhere and not make absolutely is really generational and shifting.

Deborah Donenfeld

I think for many reasons, not least of which is because  we're all living a long time and we're all living a long time. And I think even that generation, some, my father is one of them who realized that, Oh, This company that i've been loyal to for 20 years actually is suddenly not loyal to me They're not loyal to me.

I thought that was the contract we're loyal to each other But now I see I can be discarded And I think that was the beginning of that big change for people.

Laura Rotter

So can I take from what you just said that you actually saw your father? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Losing I did I was older. I think I may have graduated college or I think I had graduated college at this time You You know, and he was given an, he basically took an early retirement.

He was given a very generous severance package. I think that they were very embarrassed and, You know to be letting him go. I don't remember what year it was that I think there was a big recession and a lot of companies just laid off Everybody and downsized and I don't remember the details But yeah, I did see him go through that and he kind of played with having his own thing for a little while Part time, but he basically took an early retirement.

So it it was fine. It was fine there wasn't a lot of  Suffering because I think he was at the age where he couldn't Could retire anyway, but I think it was a blow to the ego and it was a blow to his idea of the world order and…

Laura Rotter

Interesting. You said he was of the age to retire, but clearly he had put in place a financial basis.

So that could, in addition to the severance package. Oh, yes. He was very, um, disciplined that way. Can I then extrapolate that you and your siblings were aware of financial discipline? That's something that was, you certainly said that there was a scarcity mindset. So whether or not, The bank account was less than neighbors.

There was certainly different spending habits. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yes. Yes, for sure. We didn't really talk much about money growing up. I would say I saw my father, you know, doing the books every month, you know, paying, paying the bills and he'd go into his little office and, you know, we saw him doing that every, but we didn't like have a conversation about it.

And honestly, I didn't.  No, anything about IRAs or saving for like, I did, I had to learn that all on my own and actually ended up coming to it pretty late because of my divorce and what happened in those years. And now I have my children in their twenties, like  putting money in their IRA. I mean, this is what I did with my kids  when they, they had to take out some loans.

Not a crazy amount of loans, but they had to take out some loans for college. And I said, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to pay off your loans. And then you're going to make that monthly payment every month. Half of it, you're going to make to me because I paid off your loans and half of it, you're going to put in your IRA.

So it kind of got them started when they could have easily said, well, I don't have the money. I don't have any money. Well, they would have had to be paying their loans off anyway. So they would have had to find it. So. Yeah, and so I think it's on their radar to set money aside, make sure to be saving for retirement, even when they're young.

I mean, that's when to do it because you have to put so little away for it to make a big difference. 

Laura Rotter

Yes, the power of compound interest. Yes. You are the one teaching them because as you said that your parents never talked about it. Most parents never talk about it nowadays. My kids. And they're not unique, right?

Graduate from college and say, how much should I spend on rent? How much should I spend on Taylor Swift concerts? You know, like there's no concept because nobody ever talks about it. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah.  And some of it is sort of, I don't want to say it's genetic, but sort of built into who they are. Some kids love to save.

Some kids couldn't care less about saving. They just want to spend every last penny they have. Right. And so it's also like, my daughter's a little bit like that. She.  It has taken her a long time actually to come to the place where she feels okay spending money on herself. She still doesn't spend a lot and that's good because she's not earning a lot yet.

But it's okay to spend a little money sometimes on yourself, like that's okay. So you know, with her, that's been a little bit more of the work in that area. 

Laura Rotter

Yeah. It is interesting to see, right?  theoretically grow up in the same house with the same parents and completely different in so many aspects of their lives.

Right. Well, we still, we still have all the societal norms about boys and girls, as much as we think that we don't,  we still do. And they're so built in that it's hard to undo them or not do the things that are propagating that. So there's that. And then there's genetics. They're different, right? Even though they're very similar.

Laura Rotter

Who are you? So I'm assuming that you did not have student loan debt when you graduated from college. 

Deborah Donenfeld

I did not. Yeah, I didn't have student loan debt. My  parents were very disciplined and they took  Figured out how to pay for college without us having to take out loans, which I'm very grateful for. 

Laura Rotter

Yeah, it really is a gift.

So you graduate that student loans and what did you do and who were you in terms of your sense of discipline and,  and your role as a woman in the world to think two variables you, you just touched on. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Oh, that's so interesting. Huh? Well, I mean, I had to learn all of that. Right. And I think college was the beginning of learning all of that.

I did get a credit card in college to, to start learning how to, and my parents said, pay it all off every month. And I have never not paid off my credit card every month since then. They really put that, they did drill that into my head, pay it, don't have credit card debt. So. You know, and then I had to learn about, you know, all the stuff that you do when you are adulting, you know, setting up a phone and paying the bill and, and having a bank account and all of that stuff.

And I think I learned little by little, but I never thought about retirement. I never thought about that stuff.  I don't think that I had an idea that some man was going to come along and save me and take care of it all and take care of me.  Ironically, I did get into a marriage where I was very dependent and that ended up. 

backfiring. So maybe I did play in, in a way I did play into those stereotypes.  I don't know that I was very feminist. I don't know that I thought that I was playing into any kind of stereotype at all. Certainly not in my twenties. How old were you when you got married? I was very young. I was 23. There's a whole story.

There's a backstory around that. But yeah, I was 23 and I stayed married for 22 years. 

Laura Rotter

Wow. Okay. So it wasn't a very obviously bad marriage at the beginning. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Not as obvious as it was later, for sure. 

Laura Rotter

So what did you do when you graduated from college? Were you someone who was driven and had a goal or? Well, 

Deborah Donenfeld

So I think back to what we were talking about earlier of what you're supposed to do, right?

You're supposed to get good grades and then go to school and get good grades and everything across the board and then get a job. And I had no idea what I wanted to do.  And I thought, you know, I majored in French literature. I minored in English literature.  And then I thought, I guess I'll write because that's what I did.

I wrote, I read and wrote all through college. So I applied for a job at, Yeah, and I had a.  I had an interview with the woman in personnel  and she looked at my resume and I guess we talked for a little while and she said,  I think you'd have much more fun in the art department.  And I said, Oh yes, I would have much more fun in the art department.

And so I was the art assistant at Brides Magazine. That was my first job out of college, which was great. I mean, it was very, it was, I got more and more interested in photography. I eventually became a photographer for a while, for a long while. And it was kind of a great magazine to Have a first job because we did fashion for bridesmaids and bridal.

We did tabletop and not interiors, but tabletop and like bedding and that kind of thing, that kind of photography. They did food photography and they did travel photography. So. I kind of got to see a lot of it and interface with a lot of different photographers. So that was really fun and a great first job.

Laura Rotter

Yeah, it sounds like sort of a sexy first job, like probably doesn't pay that much, but no, nothing. 

Deborah Donenfeld

It paid nothing, but it's a, it's a sexy job. It was fun. It was really interesting and got me into a whole other world that I hadn't imagined because my parents couldn't imagine that because they because that was not  set up as as a possibility.

Laura Rotter

Really?  Yeah. So it was a fun first job. 

And how did that. Just help our listeners understand in terms of a timeline, that job and getting married, were they sort of at the same time? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Met my husband through my work. There was a, a green card element to this. So that's why we married, so I married so young. I don't think I would, at the same time, we did stay together and decide to have children together and, you know, it was the real deal.

It's just, I don't know that it would have happened quite so early. So that, that was  a big factor. So the timeline, yes. I graduated college, got this first job out of college, got married a year later. Then I left, I decided I wanted to do my own photography and I'd left that job and I was going to travel.

I had come into some money. I was like, I'm just going to use this to travel. I traveled all throughout Asia for over a year and took lots of pictures. Came back, decided I was going to be a photographer. Uh, Did that for many years, somewhere in between, I got a notification into my inbox about coaching and I thought.

That's for me. And then I thought, but what is it exactly? So I don't know, something bypassed my thinking brain to, to say, this is, this is your calling. You need to look into this. So that's sort of the nutshell version of how I came the timeline and how I came to do what I'm doing now. Yeah, and that was a big one.

Laura Rotter

So a couple of questions, I guess the 1st 1. And I also want to articulate the 2nd, the 1st 1 being okay. Were you was it a decade later? You were 33 when the email came about coaching. The email came about coaching. In my early 40s. And I'm just trying to get a sense again of who you are. You've already said, okay, you're the oldest, you take responsibility.

And even the fact that you got married at 23 says to me that you're relatively mature. Not every 23 year old would even be ready  to get married. Okay, so you're shaking your head or So, one of your strengths that had you, I mean, you're clearly a visual person, you wanted to do photography, you were in the arts department, what other?

Deborah Donenfeld

I think the thing, and the thing for me that links, yes, I am a visual person, I, I do love photography, still, the kind of photography I was doing was, Mainly portrait photography, and I think that what links it for me is an ability and desire to connect with other people. So for me, photography was all about.

I first of all, I need to get you to trust me very quickly. And I want to elicit something of the essence of who you are so that that's the picture we're taking and with coaching and people need to trust me very quickly and I need to be able to get to the essence of who they are and what they're going through and and help them to access.

Their own inner knowing about who they are so that they can sort of blossom in that way. So I feel like it's very, it doesn't seem like it should be similar, but I feel like there's a similarity certainly for the way that I do photography and the way that I do coaching.  And so I think if we're talking about like, who am I like, I think that this is, this is key.

Like I love to connect. I love having this conversation with you. I love to connect in a deep, authentic way with people. And that's the thread. That was even the thread. I mean, going back my, you know, to college. I mean, in some ways, I always joke that I've never gotten over not living in the dorm anymore. 

I love to just be with everybody, you know, and connecting and hearing about their day and, and, you know, talking through all the stuff. 

Laura Rotter

And what was going on for you, Deborah, that this came into your inbox and you were ready for a change. 

Deborah Donenfeld

I think that there were so I didn't think of it as a change at the time.

I think I thought of it as sort of something additional  and I  I think it came into my inbox at a time where I was having some back issues and I thought maybe eventually I'm not gonna be able to do photography. Like it's very physical. Maybe I should have something else that I'm starting to build up. 

You know, I did. Deal with the back issues and I actually don't have back issues anymore, but but yeah, but it I was really sort of intrigued by it. And there was a time when I got a certification through a program  and I thought, well, this is great and I'll let people know. And if I get a few clients, if they fall out of the sky, that's great.

But I'm really focused on my photography. And at some point that's flopped. And where I, you know, now I'm in the place where if people want to come back to me for pictures, that's great. I'm happy to take their picture. But I'm really, really focused on,  on my coaching practice. Like that's where my head is.

That's, you know, that's what I'm doing. So there was an evolution. I don't know exactly how it happened. And what do you think had it flip? I think I started doing more and more coaching and I just loved it so much. And maybe my Ability to market myself for photography felt like it had sort of run its course.

This was not a conscious decision, you know, like a conscious thought that I had at the time, but it could have had something to do with that. But I think I was doing, I was doing some group coaching in work environment. I was doing more individual coaching. I decided I wanted to get an additional certification.

I wanted to be certified by the International Coaching Federation.  So I did that and I just became very, very engaged  and it just kind of happened. You know, I was spending more and more time thinking about it and doing it. 

Laura Rotter

Yeah, I think you develop a kind of confidence, well, confidence, which comes from competence, competence, which comes from  confidence.

They sort of feed on each other, but that you feel like this is what I want to be doing. So this is the webinars I want to be on and the workshops I want to go to. And, uh, that you do sort of, 

and then you attract that to yourself, you know, the more you put that energy out, then that's what you're attracting to yourself.

Deborah Donenfeld

Yes. So the more I did it, the more I put out that energy, the more they came back to me, the more I did it, right? It just goes around and around. 

Laura Rotter

So please share with our listeners who you enjoy coaching, who you're attracted to work with. 

Deborah Donenfeld

My, I went through a lot of really, really big changes. When I did get divorced, it was a lot of changes at once.

It wasn't, Just the divorce at the time that I was getting divorced. I found out that my husband's business had completely tanked.  There was no like zero, there was zero in the account. And then we had enough to just pay the, our next mortgage payment in our personal account. So it was, yeah. So it was hugely shocking.

I thought I was going to stay in our apartment with our kids when we divorced, but now clearly we had to sell our apartment. So there was that and I needed to change my work so that. Because I, I could not support us on only my income, so it was like four huge changes and so now, you know, I'm on the other side of it and I really just want to help people who are going through these kinds of difficult change because I would have loved to have a guide, I would have loved to, you know, have somebody sort of holding my hand and helping me to work it through and, you know, I did a lot of work myself, both pragmatically and spiritually and energetically, like I did all of that. 

But I think that that's, that those, it doesn't have to be somebody going through like a thousand different changes at once, but people who are going through big changes in midlife at a time when they felt like they didn't expect it, right? The rug feels like it's been pulled out from under them, whether,  you know, it's work related or it's divorce or it's thinking about retirement or they've lost a spouse or, you know, these are really, really big changes that happened to us like well into adulthood. 

And so those are the people that I'd like to work with. 

Laura Rotter

So you said that you wish that you had someone maybe to help walk you through when you went through this. And this was about a decade or so ago. Yeah, I think it was about, say, 12 years ago.  Debra, this might help us imagine exactly how you now work with people, but give us an example of what you would have done.

Like to have help with or what helped you move through it ultimately? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, it's sort of two different questions. So what helped me to move through it? Yeah, I'm trying to sort of put them together. What helped me to move through? I mean, I did everything right. I did all of the practical stuff that you have to do looking for work, doing odd jobs.

You know, just like one foot in front of the other making things happen. And then I,  I leaned in really hard to all the soft skills and the things that I've been learning and doing. So, you know, I did, I signed, I did yoga for a trade. I did photography for my yoga studio and was able to practice yoga all the time. 

I, and I did workshops there. I did my morning practice. You know, unfailingly every day meditating and writing. That's super helpful, you know, and I read has self help books and talk to friends and went to therapy and I did all of all of this stuff.  And luckily I had started a lot of these practices and I'd started a lot started a lot of this sort of searching earlier.

So I did have things in my toolbox  to lean on.  In the moments of the most, the highest level of anxiety,  I think sometimes I would forget what my tools were. And in the really highest moments of anxiety, it was very hard for me to distinguish between what was my intuition and what was my fear. And so when I talk about having a guide, it's somebody to ask me the questions and help me get in touch with my intuition and get in touch with what I know to help me celebrate the wins.

Cause sometimes I don't think I could even see the wins remind me of the things in my toolbox, reflect back to me what I was saying or not saying what my body language maybe had been saying that I wasn't saying, these are all the kinds of things that I do for my clients that I think would have been  helpful for me going through this.

Laura Rotter

What I'm hearing is that practices and soft skills, right? You start off by saying, of course, the practical things, where am I going to live? How am I going to make a living? Right. Of course you do. But that how important  The again, it's it's our choice of words, but how important softer skills and those kind of practices are, and I find that in my work as a financial advisor as well.

Of course, I want to know, you know, what's coming in and what's going out and doesn't Roth or  additional.  But I think the power of the work we both do is in the soft skills and the reframing and the listening in suggesting practices. 

Deborah Donenfeld

That's right. How do you key in to what's important to you?  How much of and when when it's having to do with money, there's so much fear involved.

And how do you know if the decisions you're making are fear based or are they really based on what you? need when you're coming from that sort of centered place. 

Laura Rotter

Right. And I do believe that emotions, again, in coaching work, as well as in my work, emotions are not to be ignored. I mean, you mentioned knowing, you know, trying to listen to your intuition and are you being guided or are you just, you know, caught in a swirl, but listening to intuition is important. 

Deborah Donenfeld

It's super important. And you know what? It also. I do believe that it's all really important and that it did move the needle and  it made me just feel better to know that I was doing the right thing. Doing everything I could possibly do  that. I was working on all angles  Right. I was doing all the practical stuff and I was doing every Other kind of practice that I could think of to make it happen that somehow I needed to know that I was doing everything I could possibly do And you know what's lurking in there what limiting belief is lurking in there that has brought me to this place I need to figure that out, address it, lean into it, whatever I need to do, I need to do something so that it's not going to affect me moving forward or, or prevent me from getting out of this really  scary situation.

Laura Rotter

And I love that you said that you were able to lean on practices that you had developed before, because I think that's also, we don't want to be rushing to get to know a coach, to get to develop a meditation practice, to get to speak to someone about your money when. I handheld myself. I'm a New Yorker.

The shit is hitting the fan, you know, That's not when you want to do it. That's when you want to have practices in place relationships in place That can that they don't have to get up to speed to know you but they're 

right. 

Deborah Donenfeld

That's the ideal, right? That's the idea. Yes, and the truth is sometimes it's these things that happen when the shit hits the fan  that propel us toward  making room for new tools And doing things differently.

So  sometimes it's what it's again, it's about like, are we listening to our intuition? Well, sometimes if we're listening hard enough, we don't, maybe don't need to get to the point where everything blows up because we've been hearing the messages all along. But if we haven't been hearing all the messages all along, well, then the universe is like, all right, like.

Send in something major because like I need to talk louder. She's not hearing it, right? 

Laura Rotter

Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's a paradox. It is very true that sometimes we're just not gonna face 

Deborah Donenfeld

What we need we don't but certainly if you you're right if you come to a difficult situation challenge with tools That you already have that you've already practiced It's I think a little easier to lean on those You And to remember, Oh yeah, I can do this. This is what I've been practicing for. 

Laura Rotter

Exactly. So how do people find you? 

Deborah Donenfeld

Well, how do they find me? They can, it's really a lot of word of mouth. I am, I'm on Instagram photosynthesis coaching. I'm on LinkedIn, Debra Donenfeld. I have a website  photosynthesiscoaching. com. That's how they, that's probably the best way through my website.

Laura Rotter

I will post that in show notes, 

but I'm meaning. You know, you're a resource for people going through a big life change, as you said. How would I No, even  I'm going through a big life change. I need some help. I need a coach that would just have to come from saying that to a friend who knows you. I guess so.

I don't advertise. Do you do workshops doing more work? 

Deborah Donenfeld

I do do. I have done a couple of workshops so far. I've done two workshops for people going through for women going through divorce, but I am planning to do more workshops. So yeah, certainly that's a way to find me. I mean, People, I guess they Google for a coach.

There are a lot of ways that people, that people do come across me, but it's true that I'm not like, I'm not a household name. So not yet. Anyway, Is that something you aspire to? I aspire to serving as many people as I can. I think that's the thing about coaches is we love to help people. So I do aspire to serving as many people as I can.

Does that mean?  I need to be a household name. Not necessarily. Right. 

Laura Rotter

So you're, you're, you're not trying to get on Oprah right now, but not right now. 

Deborah Donenfeld

No. Maybe one day. I don't know. 

Laura Rotter

Do you work with people with packages? Is there an expectation of a certain amount of months or how does that work? 

Deborah Donenfeld

So the way I describe it is the main package is it's weekly sessions.  And it's a month to month situation. So if you decide, you know, you, you pay monthly, it's a month to month situation.

And if you decide at any point that this is not right for you, then we'll take a few weeks for closure and, and be done. But I, I do ask that people commit for at least three months. So, because I feel like that's sort of the minimum amount of time for us to get to know each other, see progress. And, and it's, and I feel like it's, I'm not asking people to commit to me. 

I'm asking people to commit to themselves. And this is something else about me. Like, I like to dig in when I do something, I have no problem with commitment, right? Like I want to stay, I come, I'm there. I'm I signed up. I'm going to be there every week  and I dig in and want to do the work. And so I like to work with people who want to do the work.

And so three months feels like that's a minimum. If you can't commit for three months, it's what it says to me is you're not, you don't really want to. You're looking for a quick fix, or you aren't really ready to do the work, or that maybe we wouldn't be the right match. 

Laura Rotter

That makes sense. What kind of signposts are you looking for?

Is it emotional changes in the people you're working with? Working with, is it outside changes when you try to gauge what kind of movement they're making? 

Deborah Donenfeld

It's, I would say, all of the above, you know, and they are usually linked.  There's always going to be an emotional component. You may have very practical things that you want to change, and those things will change.

And, you know, with the work. And also, There's going to be an emotional component that comes with it because there always is. And so you have to kind of work on both sides. That's the kind of great thing about coaching, right? It's yeah, there's an emotional component and there's a very practical component.

There's an action component. And, and we do want to raise self awareness and emotional awareness because you can't really have the growth without that. So,  And it's a, you know, it's each person is different. What are they bringing  as the issue and where do they want to go? So if they come to me and they want to make emotional growth, well, then we're going to focus more on that.

And if they have very specific  things that they want to achieve,  then we're going to focus on that. 

Laura Rotter

I love what I'm hearing is that it is so  client focused. It's not an cookie cutter, not the way I work. 

Deborah Donenfeld

No. And I know that some people really, you know, appreciate a 10 step program,  you know, and some coaches work that way.

You're going to do step one and then two, and you're going to make it to 10 and then you're done and you know, fly and be free.  But I don't really, that's not my process.  

Laura Rotter

So that's great that you said, you know, right. This idea may be that like, oh, you'll fly and be free. Have you redefined for yourself what your end goal is?

Which I usually ask this question is, has your definition of success shifted? But I'm not even sure what your definition of success was when you started to even. Right. I guess when you really started after that big change in life was just to know that you're on firm footing.  

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, exactly. And I think that it's, it's, so for me, you know, personal growth is a lifelong project,  you know, like it's just going to always happen.

And I'm, yes, I, it was, that was the goal at that time. Get on firm footing.  And then when I felt like I was on firmer footing, then the goal becomes something else. And so now the goal is, you know, whatever the goal, now I'm in a place of how, you know, how can I, how can I have a little more control over my calendar?

Right. How can I maybe work a little bit less, you know, like how can I figure out a way to have balance?  So I think that's sort of where I'm working right now, but it'll change. It'll be,  It'll be something else a year from now and five years from now, 

Laura Rotter

Right? Life is about change. Life is about change.

Whether or not we want it to be. It sounds like you're someone who's into embracing the change you've been through, right? As  one of the exercise instructors I work with says, you've lived through, you know, the worst days. You know, you've made it through the worst days of your life. In other words, here we are talking. 

Deborah Donenfeld

Right. 

Well, and then again, you never know  who, right. I don't know what's to come,  but hopefully I have the tools and hopefully, you know, there's that. roomy poem. I think it's called The Guesthouse. Welcome everything. Welcome. And hopefully, stuff happens, I can be in a frame of mind to welcome it. I know it's not going to feel good.

It's not going to be, it's not like, I'm not going to feel like I'm welcoming it with the same vigor as I would something joyful and exciting. But hopefully I can be in a place where I think, okay, this is, this is for me.  This is a gift for me that I don't understand what the gift is exactly,  hopefully, hopefully I can get to a place where I understand that treated as a gift.

Laura Rotter

Yes, but it's a worthwhile goal.  And perhaps. Though it wasn't a direct answer to that question, perhaps that is the definition of success, to have practices in place, support systems,  relationships in place, work in place, that enables you to reframe  when the dark, when there are darker days and there are lighter days, because that is the pulse of the world in which we live, the world.

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, absolutely. I think that probably going through that experience really changed my definition of success. You know, like I think for me, success is having financial stability and not having to be anxious about money, having the time to be able to see my kids and spend time with them and to nourish myself.

You know, like that, it's pretty simple. I don't need to be jet setting or, you know, Having a big house somewhere, you know, like that. That's I need to feel. 

Laura Rotter

Yes. And you said another thing as well. You would need to feel financially secure and you want the time. And of course, those are two trade offs money and time.

And you said earlier, something that really resonated with me, which is that's perhaps your challenge right now. I don't know that there's such a thing as balance. And yet fall victim of the schedules we create for ourselves. 

Deborah Donenfeld

That's right. And that's, I think that's key, right? We are creating them for ourselves.

Laura Rotter

And so we can create something else if we want to.  Thank you. This has been a fun conversation. Is there anything you'd like our listeners to To know before I don't think so. I think we covered a lot.

 

Deborah Donenfeld

Yeah, I mean, I think I can I can just say that if anybody is curious or Interested or wanting to maybe explore I offer a free 45 minute consult and that's you know, there's always a lot of value in that.

I'd like to Make it a robust session. It's almost like a session really  so that people can really get something out of it. So, you know, there's nothing to lose. 

Laura Rotter

Yes. That's very generous. And I will post that link in the show notes.  Really enjoyed our conversation, Debra. 

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Debra Donenfeld owner of photosynthesis coaching.  And here are some of the takeaways.  Discover the links between one career to the next. Deborah worked for many years as a portrait photographer, and she then decided to pursue coaching.  What links these two professions for her?

is her ability and desire to connect with other people and getting them to trust her so she can get to the essence of who they are.  My second takeaway, have a backup plan.  Information about a coaching program came into Deborah's inbox at a time when she began to have back problems that she feared would interfere with her photography work. 

She thought coaching could be her backup plan. Luckily, she no longer has back issues and she runs a successful coaching business.  And finally, she's back. The more you put the energy out, the more you attract it back to yourself.  Debra noted that she didn't make a conscious decision to focus more on coaching and less on photography.

Instead, she loved the coaching so much she began spending more time thinking about it and doing it. So that her practice naturally grew.  If this has struck a chord with you, please don't hesitate to reach out. If you're in the midst of a life reinvention and would like to use your financial resources well,  and are you enjoying this podcast?

I love it. If you would. Subscribe so you won't miss the next episode. And also if you would rate and review the show, I'd so greatly appreciate it. It will help others just like you to find it. Thank you so much. 

Narrator

Thanks for listening to Making Change With Your Money. Certified Financial Planner, Laura Roder specializes in helping people just like you, organize, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Thank you. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors. com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey. 

Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.