A conversation with Tammy Gooler Loeb, a career and executive coach, speaker, facilitator and author of Work from the Inside Out: Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career That Fulfills You.
Tammy Gooler Loeb is an Executive and Career Coach, Author, Speaker, and Podcast Host. Through her coaching practice, her book, Work From the Inside Out and her podcast by the same name, Tammy helps her readers, listeners and clients develop greater satisfaction in their careers and work relationships.
Tammy shared her own personal career journey. She worked at her college career office when she was in school, spent some time in community mental health, in the Mayor's office in Boston working on public policy, and then as a writer of grants for non-profits.
Tammy describes how she began to chafe as an employee, always working under someone else's agenda. She realized that she was not a great employee; she did not like being told what to do. She started her consulting business after receiving a great piece of advice: have a part time job as a financial anchor and build a side gig around that.
"Networking wasn't just about telling people about me to help me get a job. It was more finding out about what other people were doing, what they liked about it, and then seeing what that sparked in me". Tammy Gooler Loeb
Key takeaways:
- Be willing to shake things up, to take a risk, when you’re in a rut. In Tammy’s case, at age 25, she bought a one-way ticket to Athens, with nothing else but a backpack, to kickstart her sense of adventure, freedom and curiosity.
- Consider working in a field before pursuing a degree in it. Tammy had applied to and was accepted into a program for a Masters in Public Policy, but then realized it made sense to work in public policy before enrolling, even with a great scholarship award. And she did NOT end up pursuing that degree!
- As you explore next steps, talk to other people about what they are doing. Tammy shared that, if she saw someone doing something that interested her, she always made an effort to reach out and find out what they liked about it and how they got where they were. Looking back, she realizes she was networking!
About the guest:
Tammy Gooler Loeb is the author of Work from the Inside Out: Break Through Nine Common Obstacles and Design a Career That Fulfills You. She is a career and executive coach, speaker and facilitator with expertise in career transitions, team, and leadership development. Tammy’s clients represent many sectors and industries.
Tammy’s weekly podcast, Work from the Inside Out, highlights stories of guests' career transitions to more meaningful work.
Her expertise has appeared in Forbes, Fast Company, The Boston Globe, and Harvard Business Review Ascend.
Tammy holds a B.A. in Psychology from Hampshire College, Amherst, MA, and an MBA from Boston University, Boston, MA.
Linkedin:- http://linkedin.com/in/tammygoolerloeb
Facebook:- http://facebook.com/TammyGoolerLoebCoaching
Her free gift Bonus Workbook can be accessed through www.tammygoolerloeb.com/workbook
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Tammy Gooler Loeb: So, it wasn't just about telling people about me and helping me get a job. It was more finding out about what other people were doing, what they liked about it, which has always been of interest to me and then seeing what that sparked in me.
Welcome to Making Change with Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura.
[00:00:39] Laura Rotter: So I am so excited to introduce my guest today, Tammy Gooler Loeb.
Tammy is an executive and career coach, and she has just celebrated recording the 200th episode of her podcast Work from the Inside Out, where she interviews people who've made significant career transitions, leading to more rewarding and satisfying work lives. And Tammy is also the author of a book by the same name, Work From the Inside Out.
So, I'm excited to learn about your journey. Tammy, thanks so much for agreeing to be a guest on my podcast.
[00:01:19] Tammy Gooler Loeb: My pleasure, Laura and I will say that you were one of the esteemed guests on my podcast.
[00:01:30] Laura Rotter: Yes, thank you. I enjoyed that.
[00:01:32] Laura Rotter: So, I like to start with the same question with everyone I've interviewed, just to sort of set the tone for the conversation we'll have today.
And that question is, what was money like in your family growing up?
[00:01:48] Tammy Gooler Loeb: So, you know, it's a great question. I'm going based on my memories as a kid. I remember, I always wanted to go to sleepaway camp, and I was always told it costs too much.
There were other things I remember, like I remember my mother really liked nice clothes and things. Not that she bought a lot, but when she did, she seemed to get a few very nice things for herself. I won't say that she was, you know, getting herself nice things and then not letting me go to sleepaway camp. I don't mean it like that, but there was this, you know, very different relationship with money in terms of, you know, you have to spend money to get nice things.
What I started to realize probably once I went off to college where you know, you can get good value, and not have to spend a ton of money to get good value. So, I think there was an equation between what are you spending, and what does that mean? You know, the equation between how much you're spending and what is value? And you know, we had everything we needed. I'd say I grew up in a in a probably upper middle-class upbringing.
I just remember the conversation about sleepaway camp, And a lot of my friends got to go and I think I once got to go to Girl Scout camp for a couple of weeks, but I never got the full eight week experience. as it used to be. I always felt a little deprived about that. But I got to do lots of other things growing up that obviously involved money. So, but it was about, you know, what kinds of things can money get you, you know, it was, it really was looking at that.
I think and the notion that if someone's doing well, they might have a nice car. There was materialism. I don't think I was raised with a super deep sense of materialism, but there was some connection around that. Both of my parents of course were children during the depression. So, there was an equation I think between not wanting to overspend. I think I was taught to not spend everything you make.
There was a bit of that. But you know, when I think about the things I've learned later in my life about money and about credit and things like that, there were a lot of things I wasn't that prepared for when I was really more on my own, that I've been able to teach my daughter much earlier in her life. I've seen her relationship with money being very different than mine was at her age. So, I feel very good about that.
[00:04:37] Laura Rotter: That’s great. What I'm hearing you say is that when you grew up, you did get the message to be thoughtful about how you spend your money.
[00:04:44] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yes. But I felt, I did feel a little bit limited sometimes. I don't want to say deprived because I really wasn't.
[00:04:51] Laura Rotter: And I'm glad that you're also, you are being thoughtful about how you educate your daughter about money because our society does not educate people.
[00:05:02] Tammy Gooler Loeb: No, I know, there’s no one you can’t blame, you can’t put blame anywhere. but several years ago I got a contract with the United Way to teach coaching skills to financial coaches who were working with low and moderate income populations in the community through a variety of organizations that were designed to try to alleviate poverty.
And so, they were a wide range of organizations, but they were working with mostly adults, sometimes younger people, but mostly adults, families helping them to either repair credit or build credit, helping people with first time home buyer programs or you know a variety of those kinds of financial matters. And so, in the process of me teaching the coaching skills, I also learned a lot about all the ins and outs of budgeting and assets and the ins and outs of credit that I didn't know before, even though I have an MBA and I took a lot of financial courses in graduate school.
And from that, I was able to bring a lot of that learning to my daughter. She was growing up and realized that even though I was already careful with money, I just. I got some insights that I didn't have before that if I had had them earlier on, I might have made some other decisions, like the first time I bought my first house, thinking that it was a good idea to cut up most of my credit cards to free up my credit so that I could get my first mortgage. That was not a good idea. [00:06:59]
Laura Rotter: Well, that's a whole other discussion of that, right. You know, how, how one of all the variables that go into calculating a credit score on that, or if you cut up your credit cards.
[00:07:12] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I thought it was the smartest thing I could do.
Isn't that funny?
[00:07:17] Laura Rotter: So please share your journey. I know you've been a consultant since the early nineties, but how did that evolve?
[00:07:26] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I've been employed since I was a teenager.
Laura Rotter: Oh, do you remember your first job?
Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, sure. Well, as a very young person, I did babysitting and things like that.
Laura Rotter: I always have as a career coach, I always have people talk about their very first job, not just their job with an employer, a formal employer, but you know, what was your very first job where you got paid for something?
Tammy Gooler Loeb: I guess my very first job was ironing shirts at home, getting a quarter a shirt.
[00:07:57] Laura Rotter: That's interesting. Your parents were teaching you the value of a quarter.
[00:08:00] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Which is probably why if you asked me where the iron is in my house now, I'd have to really think about it.
My first real paid job though, was I worked in the kitchen of a nursing home, and I made more than minimum wage, which is probably why I took that job. because otherwise I would've ended up at Burger King, which is where I also had a job offer. I worked in the kitchen of a nursing home and I worked 16 hours a week, and I remember exactly how much I made every week there.
I think in my senior year of high school. I had a couple of other jobs before that. I worked at a summer camp for a few summers as a counselor. So those were some early jobs.
[00:08:49] Laura Rotter: What was your major in college? Did you have an idea of who you wanted to be when you grew up?
[00:08:56] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I did. I was very focused.
I knew that I wanted to major in psychology, and I thought that I wanted to become some kind of clinical psychologist. I went into school thinking that I would just go through a very, sort of, I went to a very non-traditional school as an undergrad. I went to a school called Hampshire College.
Laura Rotter: I know Hampshire.
Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. A lot of people don't though. But one of our more, more famous alums from Hampshire was documentary filmmaker, Ken Burns. Hampshire has no grades and no tests. It's a very project driven; analytical, critical thinking driven kind of curriculum. And I went to Hampshire. Not really the most non-traditional person, but I loved that style of education.
But I crafted for myself a major that really followed a very traditional psychology degree and thought I was going to go get a master's in PhD in clinical psychology. That's not what happened. I did still follow that path as an undergrad, but once I was done with Hampshire and finishing a thesis, I was really done with school for a while.
So, I didn't go to grad school.
[00:10:14] Laura Rotter: Right. And what did you do? Because I hear an ethic of needing to earn money somehow.
[00:10:20] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, sure. So, I was always very, I was very independent. I did not want to depend on anybody. In fact, throughout school I always had, uh, a job. I always had a job on campus, and I didn't want to do jobs that didn't take me somewhere next, so, I worked in the admissions office and I worked in the career center on campus.
So those were jobs where I got to do things that enabled me to think about what was next. So, in the uh, admissions office, I started out stuffing envelopes and things like that, but by my second year there I was, I was actually interviewing prospective students. For the, um, for the admissions office, which was really an honor because I, I don't think a lot of the other student workers in the office there got to do that, but I somehow managed to do that.
And then in the career center, I got to do all kinds of really, interesting things. Helping other students prepare resumes and to get ready for grad school and think about their careers. So that's, that's where I first began being interested in helping people with their careers and their goals. I was still very interested in clinical psychology and in mental health, and, but I wasn't sure how I wanted to pursue it.
So, when I graduated, I got a, in community mental health, and I worked as a counselor with chronically mentally ill folks who were being literally emptied out of the state hospitals. They were doing a lot of what they called deinstitutionalization and normalization as they were calling it. And I did that for three years and then I kind of burnt out on that and packed up my stuff.
Saved some money, packed up my stuff and bought a one way ticket to Europe, And said, I'm ready for an adventure now.
[00:12:20] Laura Rotter: that sounds very brave, Tammy, for someone, as you said, you're on a traditional path, you got messages about money from your parents, and then you said, okay, I'm out of here and I'm going to Europe.
What did that look like? What did that feel like?
[00:12:35] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Um, it looked like I was just done with what I was doing, and I wasn't sure what was next, but I knew that whenever I had traveled before, I always felt this sense of freedom and adventure and curiosity, and I wanted that because I wasn't feeling that.
So, I had enough money to get myself around Europe for a while, and I had a credit card. I think it had a credit limit of like $500 or something. This was in the mid-eighties and I had a friend living in Greece at the time, so I bought a one-way ticket to Athens and bought a really fancy backpack.
I did a lot of research and I packed everything up that I needed to make sure that I had enough to wear under different weather conditions and just went. I was 25 and probably my parents were horrified, but I really just didn't care what anyone thought. I just went.
[00:13:45] Laura Rotter: I love that. I didn't know you had that spirit about taking what must have felt like a risk.
[00:13:52] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, I was so ready for it, and, and I really, I thought, well, if I run out of money, I'll just find ways to work and find a way to make money as I go along.
I didn't know how long I was going to be gone. I didn't know whether I was going to be gone for two weeks, six months. I didn't, I really, I left everything very up in the air, and it was the most liberating feeling in the world. Now, once I got over there and reality hit and I had realized I had no real plan, it kind of sunk in after a few weeks.
It was like, oh, well what am I doing and who am I? And what is this all about? And I started to feel a little bit, a little, a little lost.
[00:14:38] Laura Rotter: What did you do when you got back?
Did you When I got back, have a place to live?
[00:14:40] Tammy Gooler Loeb: No, I didn't. I went back to the Pioneer Valley, and I found a dirt-cheap dumpy apartment that I lived in alone and started doing some soul searching and figuring things out. I actually applied to grad school thinking that I wanted to get a degree in public policy because this program that I had worked in in the community was completely funded by state money and I, I wondered how the decision makers at the state were making these policies and then funding these programs and all that was going on in the community, in the mental health community. A lot of it just didn't make sense to me that these legislators were making all these policy makers were making all these decisions about people they really didn't know much about.
So, I thought, well, maybe I need to know about public policy, so I'll learn about public policy. I'll get a master. So I actually got accepted to a program, got offered an amazing scholarship, a really great program, and then I realized, wait a minute, why would I spend all this time and money because I wasn't a full scholarship and go to school about something I don't know anything about.
Maybe I should work in public policy first before I actually decide that I want a higher degree in it. I had spoken to some people who had higher degrees in public policy, and I started learning a little more about it and I thought, I think I better work in public policy a little bit before I get a degree in it.
So, I actually packed up my bags and I moved to Boston where the state capital was. I thought, well, I better be where the action is. So, I moved to Boston. I moved in with a friend who had an opening in her apartment, and I knew some people who worked in the mayor's office in Boston, and I was able to get a job there.
Took about six months, so I temped. I was eating peanut butter sandwiches and bare bones, and I was temping doing all kinds of thankless jobs, but it was good.
It was good that I did that because I got exposure to a lot of different work environments in that process and it really was a tremendous opportunity because this guy that I got the job with, he was really like a member of the mayor's cabinet.
The mayor of Boston had a very high profile nationally at the time, specifically around the work they were doing in Boston around hunger and homelessness and poverty. That was both a human service issue and a public health issue. And so we ended up doing a lot of work that had both local implications but also national implications because a lot of people had their eyes on what Boston was doing about the issues around homelessness.
It was just a great, great place to be, a great opportunity and I ended up staying there for four years and it, it was an amazing, amazing place to work over the years that I had worked in community organizations and then working and interfacing with a lot of nonprofit and service providers as a result of my work in the mayor's.
I saw a lot of very skilled, very well-intentioned people trying to run organizations to do a lot of good for a lot of people. And I saw a lot of these organizations struggling to really stay afloat and I thought, I need to understand how organizations are run and how do they stay healthy. and I thought getting an MBA would be a great way to understand that.
And Boston University had a program that was an MBA in nonprofit and public management. And basically what that was a basic MBA with a few nonprofit courses thrown in on the side. So it really was a full MBA, but I also got some of the nuances of nonprofit management and fiscal management. . So, it was really a great opportunity and, and the city at the time had some kind of an arrangement with Boston University, so I was able to, while I was employed by the city, go to BU tuition free.
I had no idea what an amazing opportunity that was. So, I learned, you know, what does it really take to keep an organization more than afloat? And it really shined a light on all the things I really wanted to learn. So that by the time I was done with the MBA, I had a lot of experience from working for the city and I had a lot of experience from being in the program.
I segued after that. I left the city because I also had a lot of exposure to politics. and I really did not like that part of the job, and I did not like what I witnessed with intent, which is a great experience.
[00:20:01] Laura Rotter: Sorry to interrupt, but having that background is phenomenal, amazing.
[00:20:05] Tammy Gooler Loeb: And, I had learned, I was very comfortable with writing, especially coming from Hampshire College.
I had to do a ton of writing, so I wasn't afraid to write, so I took my grant writing experience and I got a job doing program development and grant writing for a small private company that did a lot of program development work for a variety of very large government grants and a lot of proposal writing that year.
[00:20:37] Laura Rotter: That's still in the nonprofit space? Were they writing grants non-profit, or was this segue toward?
[00:20:41] Tammy Gooler Loeb: They were a for-profit company; they were writing proposals for things like different programs and prisons and all kinds of things. Kind of interesting what they did. It was a bit of a hybrid.
[00:20:57] Laura Rotter: It sounds like it was.
[00:20:58] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I don't even remember it all that well. I did it for about a year, and then I really wanted to be on my own though. I realized that I felt like I was always working under somebody else's agenda, and I didn't like that very much. That independent spirit in me was screaming.
[00:21:18] Laura Rotter: I’m curious, Tammy, you described yourself as a people person, and from my interactions with you, I would confirm that, and you've also taken us through quite a few career transitions. Were you getting advice along the way? What role did people play in your life?
[00:21:36] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Well, I think that one of the key roles was when I hit a wall with them, with the fundraising work, and I realized that I'd really been, I had taken a course actually in, during my master's degree. I had taken a course in organizational consulting that I loved, and I realized I am not a great employee. I do not like being told what to do, and, and so I realized that, so I was really interested in consulting.
I really liked to advise other people what to do, so I went to the director of the BA program. This was after I had graduated, and I told her what my dilemma was at that point that I had been working. I just, I kept finding myself working in these organizations. I just wasn't happier.
I was finding fault with either how things were running or that I didn't like the work I was doing. I liked the direction of the work and where it was landing, but there were so many other aspects to it that just didn't work for me and that I really thought that I needed to work for, but I wasn't sure how to get there.
She was the person who advised me, get a part-time job as a financial anchor and then build something on the side around that. That was one of the best pieces of advice I ever got. I think the other thing that I did along the way was to always talk to other people about what they were doing.
If I saw somebody else doing something that interested me, I always tried to reach out and find out, what do you like about it? How did you get there? And you know, it was basically networking. It wasn't just about telling people about me and help me get a job, it was more finding out about what other people were doing, what they liked about it has always been of interest to me, and then seeing what that sparked in me, and this is what I advise people to do all the time, is stop worrying about what anyone thinks of you and find out what interests you about what they're doing, and then see what that sparks in you. That's a much better way to network.
[00:24:10] Laura Rotter: That's wonderful advice, Tammy. And I think it's a gift that introverts have, because we prefer to listen.
[00:24:17] Tammy Gooler Loeb: That's right. Talk. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:24:25] Laura Rotter: It's, uh, wonderful when it comes naturally, which sounds good for you.
[00:24:29] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. I teach a workshop on networking for introverts because, I think introverts actually could be great networkers and they don't know it.
[00:24:39] Laura Rotter: So please tell us a little bit about your coaching practice, who you enjoy working with, and we've heard a little bit about how you work with people.
[00:24:49] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. So, my mission is to help people find meaning, fulfillment, and satisfaction at work. And there's several different ways that I do.
One is through individual coaching, and I work with experienced professionals, usually people who've been out and working at least 10 years, sometimes less, but usually at least 10 years. And I work with people who are in a variety of roles, anything from managers, directors, all the way on up through the C-suite.
And it can be somebody who's deciding what they want to do next, whether they are trying to identify what that is, or they might know what that is, and they're trying to find their way into that next role. So it might be a full-on job search process, or it might be somebody who is in a role that they like, but they're finding that there's some areas that they really would like to strengthen or improve upon or put some fresh air into. And so, it's more of a leadership development or, they want to enhance their presence within the workplace, whether it has to do with how they're communicating or how they're working with other people, the making, you know, their workplace relationships better.
I do speak. I love going to women's conferences and association groups or employee research resource groups and talking about how, you know, how can you build your career or design a career that's going to be more satisfying for you? What gets in the way of that? So those are all things that I talk to people about and engage people around. Everything I do is engaging. I never just talk at people. And then of course I have the podcast, which is a great way to share other people's stories and shine a light on what they're doing and hopefully inspiring people. And then my book, which also offers people a variety of stories, but also a lot of development tools that people can use right out of the book so that they can start on their own.
[00:27:08] Laura Rotter: What's your favorite part of the mission? Like what, is there a specific piece you could look at that really sparks joy to use Marie Kondo's term?
[00:27:15] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I think the thing that really gives me joy is when somebody gets to that point or they can see they're on the path towards finding something or establishing something for themselves that, or they feel like they have the tools they need to get to a more satisfying place. They're really taking that ownership. It doesn't mean that they've arrived there, but they can. They can take more ownership of that, because I think that a lot of people, well, we know, I mean, there's tons of research and data that shows that at least 60, 65% of the working population, not just in this country, but in other countries too, are feeling disengaged at.
So what is it that we can offer people so that they can start to take more ownership of their career, of their work life so that they can feel that when they get up in the morning, they have something to look forward to, that at the end of the day, that kind of tired they feel is a good kind of tired instead of, I'm glad this is over with.
Put money away, take care of business, but you can take care of business and still be fulfilled in what you're doing day in and day out.
[00:28:41] Laura Rotter: I love that, Tammy. Amen. You know, my business is also focused on women, having experienced myself, having been part of that statistic of just dragging myself to work every day.
Yeah. That we have resources, we have financial resources, we have time resources. We have energy resources. And you only get one chance, you don’t get a do over. So, use those resources to live a life of purpose and a life.
[00:29:12] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Absolutely. And it's never, ever, ever too late. My oldest client, who I helped get a full-time job was 70. 70 is the new 40. You know, I think that people, I hear people all the time say things like, well, I'm going to retire at this age. And I'm thinking, well, what do you think is going to happen at that age? Or how long do you think you're going to live? What is it that's magical about that age?
You know, I understand that, that people have certain benchmarks if they have a certain type of retirement plan or, or whatever. But what is it that you think is, you know, what switch is going to turn on or off at that point in time? And it's, it's always interesting to me, and I don't ask them, but I'm dying to ask them actually sometimes to say, what, what do you think's going to happen the day you turn that age?
You know? Who's in control here of this? What? What’s on the agenda? I don't know. I just, I see a lot of it. I have a lot of friends now who are heading in that direction or have already declared themselves retired, and it's interesting to see how many of them in the last year have declared themselves retired and within an unbelievably short period of time.
Oh, they're taking on contract work. They're working part-time, they. Very quickly. They didn't know what to do with themselves.
[00:30:44] Laura Rotter: We all look to retire from but it's important to retire to and it's not an exploration we’re culturally prompted to do.
[00:30:57] Tammy Gooler Loeb: And this is not your parents' retirement.
The world has changed in so many ways. I mean, honestly, I have a retirement plan financially, but I don't have a plan to retire. I am sure I will wind down some of the things I'm doing now, but I hope that I live every day till my last feeling that I'm living on purpose, whatever that means.
I never ever want to feel like I'm not living a purposeful life. That to me, would be death if I'm not feeling purposeful. So, whatever that looks like, I have no plans to retire. I'm saying it here. I'm saying it here right now.
[00:31:44] Laura Rotter: So, Tammy, as you've been through the iterations of your work life, how has your definition of financial success shifted?
[00:31:55] Tammy Gooler Loeb: It has shifted, and you know, and especially in the last few years, I think since the pandemic, it has shifted as our sense of uncertainty has. I mean, uncertainty has always been there, but I do think that the older I get, the more I'm aware of just how much uncertainty there is and how it, it crops up and.
I find myself thinking about what, what does that mean? Financial success. I think it means different things than it did years ago. It's, it's not even related to my work as much as, as just feeling, um, a sense of being able to go forward in life, feeling a sense of security so that I can make the choices I want to make versus and, and choices being how I want to live, where I want to live, the kinds of things I want to be able to do and not in a material way. Whereas I think in my younger years I might have thought about other goals that I had. I still have some of those goals, but, but I've also achieved some of those goals. So, they're a little different now.
And I think probably thought maybe a little more materialistically in the past.. I've never been particularly materialistic, but definitely far less now than then. And as I head into, I am not heading into my sixties, I am in my sixties. You know, I look at things like that in very practical terms.
And I think, yeah, I don't want to be one of these people who ends up feeling totally caught and vulnerable and trapped by the expense of healthcare. As much as I realize the whole system and how healthcare works in this country is a complete mess. Yes, but I can't solve that. But I can try to make sure that I have the pieces in place I need so that I can go forward in my life feeling some sense of comfort, even if I resent the systems that are in place.
You know, I don't have time for that. I don't have time for all that resentment. I don't like it. But I want to, I want the, the freedom to choose and to navigate things. And if it means having the resources to do that, then that's what I want to make sure I have.
[00:34:32] Laura Rotter: I'm hearing that financial success has shifted to mean freedom and security, the ability to make choices that speak to you and to feel secure and less about, you know, ego and material.
[00:34:47] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah, and I would say I don't think there was much ever about ego in there. As much as I think the need to feel that security down the road probably is stronger than it used to be, because there was probably a time where I thought, well, you have your whole life ahead of you.
You don't need to worry about those things. , you know, or you're going to live forever, kind of, you know, thinking and I'm, I'm well aware that's not the case. ,
[00:35:12] Laura Rotter: thank you for that thoughtful answer. Tammy, you are a phenomenal resource for the women that are listening to this podcast. How, what's the best way to reach out to you or to start to get a taste of who you are and how you work with people?
[00:35:28] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, well, thank you. Well, I believe I'm the only Tammy Gooler Loeb on the planet. If there's another one out there, let me know. So, and no matter how you spell it, it's going to come up on Google.Tammygoolerloeb.com is the best way to find me.
I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook. Workfromtheinsideout.com is another way to find me. So I'm pretty easy to find and I'm very approachable and if people want to get in touch and ask a question or connect with me on LinkedIn, I'm always open to those kinds of connections and love hearing from people and would love to, to talk to anyone who has a question or wants to make an.
The other thing that people can do if they want, they can download a bonus workbook that is an accompaniment to my book. It has some bonus sections to some of the activities that are included in the book, and that would be tammygoolerloeb.com/workbook, and that is a gift that people can have. It's a PDF that they can download.
[00:36:54] Laura Rotter: Thank you for letting people know how to get in touch with you and for offering that gift. Sure. And thank you again so much for being a guest on my podcast.
[00:37:03] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Thank you. This was fun.
[00:37:11] Laura Rotter: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Tammy Gooler Loeb of Tammy Gooler-Loeb Coaching and Consulting. Some takeaways I received from our conversation, be willing to shake things up. Take a risk when you're in a rut. In Tammy's case, at age 25, she bought a one-way ticket to Europe, With nothing else but a backpack to kickstart her sense of adventure, freedom, and curiosity.
My second takeaway is to consider working in a field before pursuing a degree in it. Tammy had applied to and was accepted into a program for a Master's in public policy, but then realized it made sense to work in public policy before enrolling, even though she had a great scholarship award, and she ended up not pursuing that degree.
And my third takeaway. As you explore the next steps, talk to other people about what they are doing. Tammy shared that if she saw someone doing something that interested her, she always tried to reach out and find out what they liked about it and how they got where they were. And looking back, she realizes she was networking.
[00:38:35] Laura Rotter: Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe. You won't miss next week's episode. And if you love the show, please leave a rating and a review. It would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
End:Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money. Certified Financial Planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organize, clarify, and invest their money. In order to support a life of purpose and meaning, go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your financial journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for Tammy Gooler Loeb: So, it wasn't just about telling people about me and helping me get a job. It was more finding out about what other people were doing, what they liked about it, which has always been of interest to me and then seeing what that sparked in me.
Recording: Welcome to Making Change with Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura.
[00:00:39] Laura Rotter: So I am so excited to introduce my guest today, Tammy Gooler Loeb.
Tammy is an executive and career coach, and she has just celebrated recording the 200th episode of her podcast Work from the Inside Out, where she interviews people who've made significant career transitions, leading to more rewarding and satisfying work lives. And Tammy is also the author of a book by the same name, Work From the Inside Out.
So, I'm excited to learn about your journey. Tammy, thanks so much for agreeing to be a guest on my podcast.
[00:01:19] Tammy Gooler Loeb: My pleasure, Laura and I will say that you were one of the esteemed guests on my podcast.
[00:01:30] Laura Rotter: Yes, thank you. I enjoyed that.
[00:01:32] Laura Rotter: So, I like to start with the same question with everyone I've interviewed, just to sort of set the tone for the conversation we'll have today.
And that question is, what was money like in your family growing up?
[00:01:48] Tammy Gooler Loeb: So, you know, it's a great question. I'm going based on my memories as a kid. I remember,
I always wanted to go to sleepaway camp, and I was always told it costs too much.
There were other things I remember, like I remember my mother really liked nice clothes and things. Not that she bought a lot, but when she did, she seemed to get a few very nice things for herself. I won't say that she was, you know, getting herself nice things and then not letting me go to sleepaway camp. I don't mean it like that, but there was this, you know, very different relationship with money in terms of, you know, you have to spend money to get nice things.
What I started to realize probably once I went off to college where you know, you can get good value, and not have to spend a ton of money to get good value. So, I think there was an equation between what are you spending, and what does that mean? You know, the equation between how much you're spending and what is value? And you know, we had everything we needed. I'd say I grew up in a in a probably upper middle-class upbringing.
I just remember the conversation about sleepaway camp, And a lot of my friends got to go and I think I once got to go to Girl Scout camp for a couple of weeks, but I never got the full eight week experience. as it used to be. I always felt a little deprived about that. But I got to do lots of other things growing up that obviously involved money. So, but it was about, you know, what kinds of things can money get you, you know, it was, it really was looking at that.
I think and the notion that if someone's doing well, they might have a nice car. There was materialism. I don't think I was raised with a super deep sense of materialism, but there was some connection around that. Both of my parents of course were children during the depression. So, there was an equation I think between not wanting to overspend. I think I was taught to not spend everything you make.
There was a bit of that. But you know, when I think about the things I've learned later in my life about money and about credit and things like that, there were a lot of things I wasn't that prepared for when I was really more on my own, that I've been able to teach my daughter much earlier in her life. I've seen her relationship with money being very different than mine was at her age. So, I feel very good about that.
[00:04:37] Laura Rotter: That’s great. What I'm hearing you say is that when you grew up, you did get the message to be thoughtful about how you spend your money.
[00:04:44] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yes. But I felt, I did feel a little bit limited sometimes. I don't want to say deprived because I really wasn't.
[00:04:51] Laura Rotter: And I'm glad that you're also, you are being thoughtful about how you educate your daughter about money because our society does not educate people.
[00:05:02] Tammy Gooler Loeb: No, I know, there’s no one you can’t blame, you can’t put blame anywhere. but several years ago I got a contract with the United Way to teach coaching skills to financial coaches who were working with low and moderate income populations in the community through a variety of organizations that were designed to try to alleviate poverty.
And so, they were a wide range of organizations, but they were working with mostly adults, sometimes younger people, but mostly adults, families helping them to either repair credit or build credit, helping people with first time home buyer programs or you know a variety of those kinds of financial matters. And so, in the process of me teaching the coaching skills, I also learned a lot about all the ins and outs of budgeting and assets and the ins and outs of credit that I didn't know before, even though I have an MBA and I took a lot of financial courses in graduate school.
And from that, I was able to bring a lot of that learning to my daughter. She was growing up and realized that even though I was already careful with money, I just. I got some insights that I didn't have before that if I had had them earlier on, I might have made some other decisions, like the first time I bought my first house, thinking that it was a good idea to cut up most of my credit cards to free up my credit so that I could get my first mortgage. That was not a good idea. [00:06:59]
Laura Rotter: Well, that's a whole other discussion of that, right. You know, how, how one of all the variables that go into calculating a credit score on that, or if you cut up your credit cards.
[00:07:12] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I thought it was the smartest thing I could do.
Isn't that funny?
[00:07:17] Laura Rotter: So please share your journey. I know you've been a consultant since the early nineties, but how did that evolve?
[00:07:26] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I've been employed since I was a teenager.
Laura Rotter: Oh, do you remember your first job?
Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, sure. Well, as a very young person, I did babysitting and things like that.
Laura Rotter: I always have as a career coach, I always have people talk about their very first job, not just their job with an employer, a formal employer, but you know, what was your very first job where you got paid for something?
Tammy Gooler Loeb: I guess my very first job was ironing shirts at home, getting a quarter a shirt.
[00:07:57] Laura Rotter: That's interesting. Your parents were teaching you the value of a quarter.
[00:08:00] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Which is probably why if you asked me where the iron is in my house now, I'd have to really think about it.
My first real paid job though, was I worked in the kitchen of a nursing home, and I made more than minimum wage, which is probably why I took that job. because otherwise I would've ended up at Burger King, which is where I also had a job offer. I worked in the kitchen of a nursing home and I worked 16 hours a week, and I remember exactly how much I made every week there.
I think in my senior year of high school. I had a couple of other jobs before that. I worked at a summer camp for a few summers as a counselor. So those were some early jobs.
[00:08:49] Laura Rotter: What was your major in college? Did you have an idea of who you wanted to be when you grew up?
[00:08:56] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I did. I was very focused.
I knew that I wanted to major in psychology, and I thought that I wanted to become some kind of clinical psychologist. I went into school thinking that I would just go through a very, sort of, I went to a very non-traditional school as an undergrad. I went to a school called Hampshire College.
Laura Rotter: I know Hampshire.
Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. A lot of people don't though. But one of our more, more famous alums from Hampshire was documentary filmmaker, Ken Burns. Hampshire has no grades and no tests. It's a very project driven; analytical, critical thinking driven kind of curriculum. And I went to Hampshire. Not really the most non-traditional person, but I loved that style of education.
But I crafted for myself a major that really followed a very traditional psychology degree and thought I was going to go get a master's in PhD in clinical psychology. That's not what happened. I did still follow that path as an undergrad, but once I was done with Hampshire and finishing a thesis, I was really done with school for a while.
So, I didn't go to grad school.
[00:10:14] Laura Rotter: Right. And what did you do? Because I hear an ethic of needing to earn money somehow.
[00:10:20] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, sure. So, I was always very, I was very independent. I did not want to depend on anybody. In fact, throughout school I always had, uh, a job. I always had a job on campus, and I didn't want to do jobs that didn't take me somewhere next, so, I worked in the admissions office and I worked in the career center on campus.
So those were jobs where I got to do things that enabled me to think about what was next. So, in the uh, admissions office, I started out stuffing envelopes and things like that, but by my second year there I was, I was actually interviewing prospective students. For the, um, for the admissions office, which was really an honor because I, I don't think a lot of the other student workers in the office there got to do that, but I somehow managed to do that.
And then in the career center, I got to do all kinds of really, interesting things. Helping other students prepare resumes and to get ready for grad school and think about their careers. So that's, that's where I first began being interested in helping people with their careers and their goals. I was still very interested in clinical psychology and in mental health, and, but I wasn't sure how I wanted to pursue it.
So, when I graduated, I got a, in community mental health, and I worked as a counselor with chronically mentally ill folks who were being literally emptied out of the state hospitals. They were doing a lot of what they called deinstitutionalization and normalization as they were calling it. And I did that for three years and then I kind of burnt out on that and packed up my stuff.
Saved some money, packed up my stuff and bought a one way ticket to Europe, And said, I'm ready for an adventure now.
[00:12:20] Laura Rotter: that sounds very brave, Tammy, for someone, as you said, you're on a traditional path, you got messages about money from your parents, and then you said, okay, I'm out of here and I'm going to Europe.
What did that look like? What did that feel like?
[00:12:35] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Um, it looked like I was just done with what I was doing, and I wasn't sure what was next, but I knew that whenever I had traveled before, I always felt this sense of freedom and adventure and curiosity, and I wanted that because I wasn't feeling that.
So, I had enough money to get myself around Europe for a while, and I had a credit card. I think it had a credit limit of like $500 or something. This was in the mid-eighties and I had a friend living in Greece at the time, so I bought a one-way ticket to Athens and bought a really fancy backpack.
I did a lot of research and I packed everything up that I needed to make sure that I had enough to wear under different weather conditions and just went. I was 25 and probably my parents were horrified, but I really just didn't care what anyone thought. I just went.
[00:13:45] Laura Rotter: I love that. I didn't know you had that spirit about taking what must have felt like a risk.
[00:13:52] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Oh, I was so ready for it, and, and I really, I thought, well, if I run out of money, I'll just find ways to work and find a way to make money as I go along.
I didn't know how long I was going to be gone. I didn't know whether I was going to be gone for two weeks, six months. I didn't, I really, I left everything very up in the air, and it was the most liberating feeling in the world. Now, once I got over there and reality hit and I had realized I had no real plan, it kind of sunk in after a few weeks.
It was like, oh, well what am I doing and who am I? And what is this all about? And I started to feel a little bit, a little, a little lost.
[00:14:38] Laura Rotter: What did you do when you got back?
Did you When I got back, have a place to live?
[00:14:40] Tammy Gooler Loeb: No, I didn't. I went back to the Pioneer Valley, and I found a dirt-cheap dumpy apartment that I lived in alone and
started doing some soul searching and figuring things out. I actually applied to grad school thinking that I wanted to get a degree in public policy because this program that I had worked in in the community was completely funded by state money and I, I wondered how the decision makers at the state
were making these policies and then funding these programs and all that was going on in the community, in the mental health community. A lot of it just didn't make sense to me that these legislators were making all these policy makers were making all these decisions about people they really didn't know much about.
So, I thought, well, maybe I need to know about public policy, so I'll learn about public policy. I'll get a master. So I actually got accepted to a program, got offered an amazing scholarship, a really great program, and then I realized, wait a minute, why would I spend all this time and money because I wasn't a full scholarship and go to school about something I don't know anything about.
Maybe I should work in public policy first before I actually decide that I want a higher degree in it. I had spoken to some people who had higher degrees in public policy, and I started learning a little more about it and I thought, I think I better work in public policy a little bit before I get a degree in it.
So, I actually packed up my bags and I moved to Boston where the state capital was. I thought, well, I better be where the action is. So, I moved to Boston. I moved in with a friend who had an opening in her apartment, and I knew some people who worked in the mayor's office in Boston, and I was able to get a job there.
Took about six months, so I temped. I was eating peanut butter sandwiches and bare bones, and I was temping doing all kinds of thankless jobs, but it was good.
It was good that I did that because I got exposure to a lot of different work environments in that process and it really was a tremendous opportunity because this guy that I got the job with, he was really like a member of the mayor's cabinet.
The mayor of Boston had a very high profile nationally at the time, specifically around the work they were doing in Boston around hunger and homelessness and poverty. That was both a human service issue and a public health issue. And so we ended up doing a lot of work that had both local implications but also national implications because a lot of people had their eyes on what Boston was doing about the issues around homelessness.
It was just a great, great place to be, a great opportunity and I ended up staying there for four years and it, it was an amazing, amazing place to work over the years that I had worked in community organizations and then working and interfacing with a lot of nonprofit and service providers as a result of my work in the mayor's.
I saw a lot of very skilled, very well-intentioned people trying to run organizations to do a lot of good for a lot of people. And I saw a lot of these organizations struggling to really stay afloat and I thought, I need to understand how organizations are run and how do they stay healthy. and I thought getting an MBA would be a great way to understand that.
And Boston University had a program that was an MBA in nonprofit and public management. And basically what that was a basic MBA with a few nonprofit courses thrown in on the side. So it really was a full MBA, but I also got some of the nuances of nonprofit management and fiscal management. . So, it was really a great opportunity and, and the city at the time had some kind of an arrangement with Boston University, so I was able to, while I was employed by the city, go to BU tuition free.
I had no idea what an amazing opportunity that was. So, I learned, you know, what does it really take to keep an organization more than afloat? And it really shined a light on all the things I really wanted to learn. So that by the time I was done with the MBA, I had a lot of experience from working for the city and I had a lot of experience from being in the program.
I segued after that. I left the city because I also had a lot of exposure to politics. and I really did not like that part of the job, and I did not like what I witnessed with intent, which is a great experience.
[00:20:01] Laura Rotter: Sorry to interrupt, but having that background is phenomenal, amazing.
[00:20:05] Tammy Gooler Loeb: And, I had learned, I was very comfortable with writing, especially coming from Hampshire College.
I had to do a ton of writing, so I wasn't afraid to write, so I took my grant writing experience and I got a job doing program development and grant writing for a small private company that did a lot of program development work for a variety of very large government grants and a lot of proposal writing that year.
[00:20:37] Laura Rotter: That's still in the nonprofit space? Were they writing grants non-profit, or was this segue toward?
[00:20:41] Tammy Gooler Loeb: They were a for-profit company; they were writing proposals for things like different programs and prisons and all kinds of things. Kind of interesting what they did. It was a bit of a hybrid.
[00:20:57] Laura Rotter: It sounds like it was.
[00:20:58] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I don't even remember it all that well. I did it for about a year, and then I really wanted to be on my own though. I realized that I felt like I was always working under somebody else's agenda, and I didn't like that very much. That independent spirit in me was screaming.
[00:21:18] Laura Rotter: I’m curious, Tammy, you described yourself as a people person, and from my interactions with you, I would confirm that, and you've also taken us through quite a few career transitions. Were you getting advice along the way? What role did people play in your life?
[00:21:36] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Well, I think that one of the key roles was when I hit a wall with them, with the fundraising work, and I realized that I'd really been, I had taken a course actually in, during my master's degree. I had taken a course in organizational consulting that I loved, and I realized I am not a great employee. I do not like being told what to do, and, and so I realized that, so I was really interested in consulting.
I really liked to advise other people what to do, so I went to the director of the BA program. This was after I had graduated, and I told her what my dilemma was at that point that I had been working. I just, I kept finding myself working in these organizations. I just wasn't happier.
I was finding fault with either how things were running or that I didn't like the work I was doing. I liked the direction of the work and where it was landing, but there were so many other aspects to it that just didn't work for me and that I really thought that I needed to work for, but I wasn't sure how to get there.
She was the person who advised me, get a part-time job as a financial anchor and then build something on the side around that. That was one of the best pieces of advice I ever got. I think the other thing that I did along the way was to always talk to other people about what they were doing.
If I saw somebody else doing something that interested me, I always tried to reach out and find out, what do you like about it? How did you get there? And you know, it was basically networking. It wasn't just about telling people about me and help me get a job, it was more finding out about what other people were doing, what they liked about it has always been of interest to me, and then seeing what that sparked in me, and this is what I advise people to do all the time, is stop worrying about what anyone thinks of you and find out what interests you about what they're doing, and then see what that sparks in you. That's a much better way to network.
[00:24:10] Laura Rotter: That's wonderful advice, Tammy. And I think it's a gift that introverts have, because we prefer to listen.
[00:24:17] Tammy Gooler Loeb: That's right. Talk. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:24:25] Laura Rotter: It's, uh, wonderful when it comes naturally, which sounds good for you.
[00:24:29] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. I teach a workshop on networking for introverts because, I think introverts actually could be great networkers and they don't know it.
[00:24:39] Laura Rotter: So please tell us a little bit about your coaching practice, who you enjoy working with, and we've heard a little bit about how you work with people.
[00:24:49] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah. So, my mission is to help people find meaning, fulfillment, and satisfaction at work. And there's several different ways that I do.
One is through individual coaching, and I work with experienced professionals, usually people who've been out and working at least 10 years, sometimes less, but usually at least 10 years. And I work with people who are in a variety of roles, anything from managers, directors, all the way on up through the C-suite.
And it can be somebody who's deciding what they want to do next, whether they are trying to identify what that is, or they might know what that is, and they're trying to find their way into that next role. So it might be a full-on job search process, or it might be somebody who is in a role that they like,
but they're finding that there's some areas that they really would like to strengthen or improve upon or put some fresh air into. And so, it's more of a leadership development or, they want to enhance their presence within the workplace, whether it has to do with how they're communicating or how they're working with other people, the making, you know, their workplace relationships better.
I do speak. I love going to women's conferences and association groups or employee research resource groups and talking about how, you know, how can you build your career or design a career that's going to be more satisfying for you? What gets in the way of that? So those are all things that I talk to people about and engage people around. Everything I do is engaging. I never just talk at people. And then of course I have the podcast, which is a great way to share other people's stories and shine a light on what they're doing and hopefully inspiring people. And then my book, which also offers people a variety of stories, but also a lot of development tools that people can use right out of the book so that they can start on their own.
[00:27:08] Laura Rotter: What's your favorite part of the mission? Like what, is there a specific piece you could look at that really sparks joy to use Marie Kondo's term?
[00:27:15] Tammy Gooler Loeb: I think the thing that really gives me joy is when somebody gets to that point or they can see they're on the path towards finding something or establishing something for themselves that, or they feel like they have the tools they need
to get to a more satisfying place. They're really taking that ownership. It doesn't mean that they've arrived there, but they can. They can take more ownership of that, because I think that a lot of people, well, we know, I mean, there's tons of research and data that shows that at least 60, 65% of the working population, not just in this country, but in other countries too, are feeling disengaged at.
So what is it that we can offer people so that they can start to take more ownership of their career, of their work life so that they can feel that when they get up in the morning, they have something to look forward to, that at the end of the day, that kind of tired they feel is a good kind of tired instead of, I'm glad this is over with.
Put money away, take care of business, but you can take care of business and still be fulfilled in what you're doing day in and day out.
[00:28:41] Laura Rotter: I love that, Tammy. Amen. You know, my business is also focused on women, having experienced myself, having been part of that statistic of just dragging myself to work every day.
Yeah. That we have resources, we have financial resources, we have time resources. We have energy resources. And you only get one chance, you don’t get a do over. So, use those resources to live a life of purpose and a life.
[00:29:12] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Absolutely. And it's never, ever, ever too late. My oldest client, who I helped get a full-time job was 70. 70 is the new 40. You know, I think that people, I hear people all the time say things like, well, I'm going to retire at this age. And I'm thinking, well, what do you think is going to happen at that age? Or how long do you think you're going to live? What is it that's magical about that age?
You know, I understand that, that people have certain benchmarks if they have a certain type of retirement plan or, or whatever. But what is it that you think is, you know, what switch is going to turn on or off at that point in time? And it's, it's always interesting to me, and I don't ask them, but I'm dying to ask them actually sometimes to say, what, what do you think's going to happen the day you turn that age?
You know? Who's in control here of this? What? What’s on the agenda? I don't know. I just, I see a lot of it. I have a lot of friends now who are heading in that direction or have already declared themselves retired, and it's interesting to see how many of them in the last year have declared themselves retired and within an unbelievably short period of time.
Oh, they're taking on contract work. They're working part-time, they. Very quickly. They didn't know what to do with themselves.
[00:30:44] Laura Rotter: We all look to retire from but it's important to retire to and it's not an exploration we’re culturally prompted to do.
[00:30:57] Tammy Gooler Loeb: And this is not your parents' retirement.
The world has changed in so many ways. I mean, honestly, I have a retirement plan financially, but I don't have a plan to retire. I am sure I will wind down some of the things I'm doing now, but I hope that I live every day till my last feeling that I'm living on purpose, whatever that means.
I never ever want to feel like I'm not living a purposeful life. That to me, would be death if I'm not feeling purposeful. So, whatever that looks like, I have no plans to retire. I'm saying it here. I'm saying it here right now.
[00:31:44] Laura Rotter: So, Tammy, as you've been through the iterations of your work life, how has your definition of financial success shifted?
[00:31:55] Tammy Gooler Loeb: It has shifted, and you know, and especially in the last few years, I think since the pandemic, it has shifted as our sense of uncertainty has. I mean, uncertainty has always been there, but I do think that the older I get, the more I'm aware of just how much uncertainty there is and how it, it crops up and.
I find myself thinking about what, what does that mean? Financial success. I think it means different things than it did years ago. It's, it's not even related to my work as much as, as just feeling, um, a sense of being able to go forward in life, feeling a sense of security so that I can make the choices I want to make versus.
and, and choices being how I want to live, where I want to live, the kinds of things I want to be able to do and not in a material way. Whereas I think in my younger years I might have thought about other goals that I had. I still have some of those goals, but, but I've also achieved some of those goals. So, they're a little different now.
And I think probably thought maybe a little more materialistically in the past.. I've never been particularly materialistic, but definitely far less now than then. And as I head into, I am not heading into my sixties, I am in my sixties. You know, I look at things like that in very practical terms.
And I think, yeah, I don't want to be one of these people who ends up feeling totally caught and vulnerable and trapped by the expense of healthcare. As much as I realize the whole system and how healthcare works in this country is a complete mess. Yes, but I can't solve that. But I can try to make sure that I have the pieces in place I need so that I can go forward in my life feeling some sense of comfort, even if I resent the systems that are in place.
You know, I don't have time for that. I don't have time for all that resentment. I don't like it. But I want to, I want the, the freedom to choose and to navigate things. And if it means having the resources to do that, then that's what I want to make sure I have.
[00:34:32] Laura Rotter: I'm hearing that financial success has shifted to mean freedom and security, the ability to make choices that speak to you and to feel secure and less about, you know, ego and material.
[00:34:47] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Yeah, and I would say I don't think there was much ever about ego in there. As much as I think the need to feel that security down the road probably is stronger than it used to be, because there was probably a time where I thought, well, you have your whole life ahead of you.
You don't need to worry about those things. , you know, or you're going to live forever, kind of, you know, thinking and I'm, I'm well aware that's not the case. ,
[00:35:12] Laura Rotter: thank you for that thoughtful answer. Tammy, you are a phenomenal resource for the women that are listening to this podcast. How, what's the best way to reach out to you or to start to get a taste of who you are and how you work with people?
[00:35:28] Tammy Gooler Loeb:
Oh, well, thank you. Well, I believe I'm the only Tammy Gooler Loeb on the planet. If there's another one out there, let me know. So, and no matter how you spell it, it's going to come up on Google.Tammygoolerloeb.com is the best way to find me.
I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook. Workfromtheinsideout.com is another way to find me. So I'm pretty easy to find and I'm very approachable and if people want to get in touch and ask a question or connect with me on LinkedIn, I'm always open to those kinds of connections and love hearing from people and would love to, to talk to anyone who has a question or wants to make an.
The other thing that people can do if they want, they can download a bonus workbook that is an accompaniment to my book. It has some bonus sections to some of the activities that are included in the book, and that would be tammygoolerloeb.com/workbook, and that is a gift that people can have. It's a PDF that they can download.
[00:36:54] Laura Rotter: Thank you for letting people know how to get in touch with you and for offering that gift. Sure. And thank you again so much for being a guest on my podcast.
[00:37:03] Tammy Gooler Loeb: Thank you. This was fun.
[00:37:11] Laura Rotter: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Tammy Gooler Loeb of Tammy Gooler-Loeb Coaching and Consulting. Some takeaways I received from our conversation, be willing to shake things up. Take a risk when you're in a rut. In Tammy's case, at age 25, she bought a one-way ticket to Europe, With nothing else but a backpack to kickstart her sense of adventure, freedom, and curiosity.
My second takeaway is to consider working in a field before pursuing a degree in it. Tammy had applied to and was accepted into a program for a Master's in public policy, but then realized it made sense to work in public policy before enrolling, even though she had a great scholarship award, and she ended up not pursuing that degree.
And my third takeaway. As you explore the next steps, talk to other people about what they are doing. Tammy shared that if she saw someone doing something that interested her, she always tried to reach out and find out what they liked about it and how they got where they were. And looking back, she realizes she was networking.
[00:38:35] Laura Rotter: Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe. You won't miss next week's episode. And if you love the show, please leave a rating and a review. It would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
End:Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money. Certified Financial Planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organize, clarify, and invest their money. In order to support a life of purpose and meaning, go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your financial journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.