A conversation with Carolyn Jungclas, a procurement specialist and contract lifecycle management expert. Carolyn left her last corporate role in April 2022, and is learning to embrace her financial freedom with energy and joy
Carolyn Jungclas is a broadly experienced leader with a 25+ year career in supply chain, engineering, maintenance and operations. Her corporate career included management roles in both power plants and financial services, and spanned locations from Boston to North Carolina.
Carolyn shared that both she and her husband, Jeff, attended University of Michigan's engineering school. Though they both worked full time, they shifted into traditional roles when it came to their finances. Carolyn bought the family groceries and clothes, while Jeff managed the money. As Carolyn described it, Jeff was managing the books, while she was spending the money.
Carolyn began her career as a turbine engineer working on steam turbines at a power company, and quickly moved up the management ranks, ultimately becoming a power plant manager. In the mid-nineties, after the deregulation of the power industry, she moved the family to the Carolinas and became the plant manager of the tenth largest coal-fired plant in the United States.
It was a great move for them financially, since the cost of living was much lower in North Carolina than it had been in Boston, where they were living. She knew her position would require her to work 60 to 70 hours a week, so Jeff, who had more flexibility, was around for their young kids.
Carolyn's work started to take a toll on her family, her health and her marriage. She took a severance package and left the power company in 2007. Soon after, she was approached by First Citizen's Bank, for whom she had done a vendor management presentation while still working for the power company. She agreed to work for them as as a part time consultant, and stayed on for fourteen years!
"You're trying to figure it out. You don't have to have all the answers. You can go and make a choice, and if it doesn't work out, do something different. Unfortunately, a lot of times we get so involved that we say, I have to know the answer." - Carolyn Jungclas
Key takeaways:
- Recognize that a good partnership involves give and take on the part of each of the partners. Sometimes, as Carolyn describes in her relationship with her husband, Jeff - sometimes decisions were made to benefit her career, and sometimes decisions were made to benefit his career.
And a good partnership also means creating a framework to talk about money, as she and Jeff did only about ten years ago. This framework, and the relationship with their financial advisor, helped them make a huge course correction in their finances, and have more internal peace
- You don’t have to have all the answers when you’re just starting your career or, frankly, at any age. You’re just trying to figure it out. You try something, it doesn’t work out, you try something else. No decision is irrevocable. And, don’t make decisions on the basis of money alone. It’s the whole package - ask: does it work for my family? Is it the right step at this time in my life?
- Networking is so important. It’s through her relationships that Carolyn was able to move from her high intensity job managing a power plant to working 8 to noon in financial services, for First Citizen’s Bank.
- Know your skills and how they’d be used when considering careers. Carolyn knows herself to be a high extrovert, who enjoys cultivating teams and growing people, problem solving and strategic thinking, and is also a good negotiator! As she puts it: She enjoys bringing people together to solve problems. A career in procurement which incorporates all of these skills suits her well.
About the guest:
Carolyn Jungclas is a recognized expert in Procurement Strategy and Execution with more than 25 years of leadership experience in Financial Services and Public Utilities. Carolyn led the procurement strategy and execution for a nationwide bank, delivering year over year cost savings for commodities, software and services. She also developed the Third-Party Risk Management (TPRM), Procurement, Contract Management and Software Asset Management programs and managed them successfully for 14 years. At the utility, Carolyn managed the supply chain program, led the Combustion Turbine Operations fleet and managed the 10th largest coal fired power plant in the United States, ensuring cost effective plant operations with high reliability. Carolyn has a BS in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Michigan and an executive MBA from University of North Carolina.
Linkedin:- http://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-jungclas-mba-cpsm-2551285
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Carolyn Jungclas: You're trying to figure it out. You don't have to have all the answers. You can go and make a choice, and if it doesn't work out, do something different. Unfortunately, a lot of times we get so involved that we say, I have to know the answer.
Welcome to Making Change With Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rodder.
Laura Rotter: I am so excited to have as my guest today, Carolyn Jonas.
She is a recognized expert in procurement strategy and execution with more than 25 years of leadership experience in financial services and public utilities. She left First Citizens Bank after over 14 years with them in April of last year, and has been self-employed since then as a consultant providing advice on, among other things, procurement contracts and data analytics.
And I am so looking forward to hearing Carolyn more about how you are navigating this big change in your life. So welcome to the Making Change with Your Money podcast.
Carolyn Jungclas: Thank you so much, Laura. I'm so excited to be here today.
Laura Rotter: So I like to start these interviews with the same question I've been using, which is, what was money like in your family growing
Carolyn Jungclas: up?
A great question and something that as my husband and I have navigated through our marriage because. He had a very different experience growing up than I did. I grew up in Detroit on the east side and my dad worked and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. We had four kids and we did not have a lot of money.
Having, having that experience and just not having access, not getting a new card, not going on vacations, not, you know, having access to do things where my parents spent that money on, I'm gonna call necessities. So I didn't feel like we were poor, but looking back, we probably were. And
Laura Rotter: you say your husband grew up differently, what was.
You know, how did that play out in your
Carolyn Jungclas: relationship? It very interestingly, I know my husband grew up about 10 miles from where I grew up. Met him in college at the University of Michigan, and Jeff's family was a little bit. More well off though still kind of living a life of not excess. They lived in a modest home.
Jeff's mom had a part-time job. Jeff's dad worked, um, for Ford Motor Company because Jeff's dad worked for Ford Motor Company. Every two years he got a new car and Jeff's dad made all of the financial decisions. There was no discussion about how money was spent, so, I was more used to my parents working together and to, to be honest, really, in our family, we didn't talk about money.
It just, it was, it was something that my parents provided and you didn't question until, you know, we became teenagers and got jobs, but the decisions in Jeff's family were strictly made by his dad what to buy, when to buy. So that was a little bit, a little bit different. And so it
Laura Rotter: sounds like perhaps when you first got together, Jack wasn't used to us sharing financial decisions.
Carolyn Jungclas: Well, it was, it's interesting because at, we met in college and then we both had full-time jobs and so, you know, jobs like we can't both do the finances. Plus I'd like to do it a certain way. I was like, oh, go ahead, be in charge of that. But, As having the traditional woman role, female role, you know, I bought all the groceries, I bought all the, you know, household related items.
I bought all the clothes, and so it was a big mismatch because he was doing the books as it were, and I was spending the money.
Laura Rotter: So you both went to University of
Carolyn Jungclas: Michigan? We did In in engineering school. That's right. That's right. We, uh, actually met at a fraternity party on campus and Jeff was a computer engineer and I was a mechanical engineer, so we had a lot in common.
So interesting,
Laura Rotter: Carolyn, as a woman to decide to go into engineering, how did that come about? Was that something you were always interested
Carolyn Jungclas: in? Well, as the third of three girls, um, with a father who was very mechanically inclined, I grew up around taking things apart. We were constantly like taking our bikes apart.
My dad was able to build and fix anything. And my brother came along seven years later, so I was really the one who was doing a lot of that with my dad, and I was so fortunate. I attended Detroit Public Schools and in high school. I was approached by my high school council guidance counselor, and she said, Hey, Detroit Edison is looking for women and minorities who are gonna study engineering.
And they will pay for their college. And so I was gonna study engineering anyway, and so I jumped at the chance. I applied for it, I interviewed for it, and they paid for my college, which was. An unbelievable gift. And so that's how I started working in power plants is I worked the summers and went to school in the, in the fall and in winter, and so I was very blessed to get a full ride to University of Michigan.
Right.
Laura Rotter: And a phenomenal school, I guess you would've gotten instate prices. I have, one of my kids went to University of Michigan on outstate
Carolyn Jungclas: tuition. No, that was, uh, instate tuition, so significantly cheaper. Yes.
Laura Rotter: Significantly cheaper. But what really, that was a gift. And did you ever question it or was it something that you really enjoyed?
Carolyn Jungclas: No, I knew I was gonna do mechanical engineering. I just, I knew I was going to, because I love taking things apart. I love process, I love systems. And so it was a very natural thing. I was very fortunate that, as. A 17 year old going into college, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. That really is,
Laura Rotter: I mean, I know it's shifted over time and younger generations feel like they have more time to figure it out, but still, Carolyn, to really have a strong sense of what you wanna do and to have done it for so many years.
Can you describe for our listeners, What exactly, it's one thing to take apart and put together a bike, but what is it that you did for Power Plant?
Carolyn Jungclas: So when I worked for the Power company, I, and this is gonna sound completely like what do they have that job? My interest was in large rotating equipment, and so very quickly, the way you make power is you introduce steam into a turbine, which is basically a big fan.
It rotates, and that rotational energy. In a generator creates electricity and there's a ton of stuff that has to happen to make that steam. And so I got very involved in the processes. I actually was a turbine engineer and worked on steam turbines and did process and those kinds of things for a number of years, and then, I, you know, it's everything from writing procedures to when something breaks, trying to figure it out and to managing big overhauls.
And it was just so fun. I absolutely loved it. And I was able to move up from an engineer to a senior engineer, to then outage manager, to then a plant manager, and, um, did that in Detroit and then in New England. And then, In the mid nineties in the Northeast, they deregulated the power industry and so it became, I, I had an opportunity to go to move to the Carolinas and was became the.
Plant manager of the 10th largest coal-fired plant in the United States, which was the most amazing job, about 250 people working at the plant and just the best work environment in the whole world. And so we moved our family from Boston to rural North Carolina. And very big cultural shift, but the, the best thing that we could have ever done, and, you know, in New England, we were barely meeting ends because it was so expensive.
You know, we were looking at, you know, here's a house on a posted stamp size lot that's $800,000 and you have to tear it down. You know, and this is 30 years ago, and so when we had an opportunity to move to North Carolina where we could buy a mansion for that and, and didn't, but, you know, bought a more modest house, it was a better time for us to, you know, in our life to move to that more rural, we had young children and, um, financially it just, it really made sense.
So. That was a great move for us. So
Laura Rotter: Carolyn, it sounds like, did, did you and your husband decide to move for your
Carolyn Jungclas: position? Yes, and luckily, my husband is a software engineer, so he had tons of opportunity in Boston. He had tons of opportunity at the R T P. So when I had a job opportunity, You know, I said, okay, Jeff, here's the location.
He said, Carol, I could get a, I easily get a job there. Not a problem. And in fact, he, he got a job. At the same time I did. So it was not, it was not an issue.
Laura Rotter: That's wonderful. And also wonderful that you had the kind of relationship that the, even if specific financial decisions weren't made, you were both open and respected each of your professional lives.
And as, um, it's been a discussion actually wi with my niece, which is that, There in a working relationship, there's often a give and take and there's a period of time perhaps where decisions are made to benefit your career. And then at other times, decisions might have been made to benefit Jeff's career, but that's part of a strong relationship of the give and take in recognizing when.
Whose career is primary in each decision making period of time? Uh,
Carolyn Jungclas: yes. And you really have to have that conversation because when the time comes, you can't just look at each other and say, well, what about me? You, there's always gonna be somebody who's pri, especially if you have children. There's gonna be somebody that's primary.
There's gonna be somebody. Who can say, yeah, I have flexibility to pick up a sick child or, or do whatever. Unless you are in a situation where financially you're able to afford a full-time nanny or, or something like that. But I'll never forget when we were deciding to move from Detroit to Boston and you know, we had no family in Boston.
We didn't know anybody. And I'll never forget, my dad said to us, you know what? If you take that job and you move there and you don't like it, you can come back. And we've had that discussion so many times and I was listening actually to a, to a podcast the other day and they were talking about. Careers and they said if everybody would be just okay that the first 10 years of your life you're trying to, of your career, you're trying to figure it out.
You don't have to have all the answers. You can go and make a choice and if it doesn't work out, do something different. Unfortunately, a lot of times we get so involved that we say, I have to know the answer, and we really, you know, I've. Worked for Detroit Edison for about 18 months and then had this opportunity to go to Boston and we just kind of took a leap of faith and did it and it was fantastic.
Such, such
Laura Rotter: very good points, Carolyn. There. We never have to lock ourselves into our decisions. I've watched, you know, my own kids and nieces and nephews, you know, worry about where they're gonna go to college and it's like, if you're not happy, You can transfer. It's not an irreparable decision. Or the first time my husband and I remember bought our starter home and we were sort of terrified and my father said, you know what?
I can always sell it, you
Carolyn Jungclas: know? Right. But you don't think about that. Right, exactly. Well, it's, it's so funny because, you know, when I went to University of Michigan, you know, I went, I was going there for five years, and I remember junior year, the first two years of engineering school is, it's basically general, you have 500 people in the class, and it's general.
And once you get to the third year, It's more, you know, 20 to, at the time, 20 to 25 people in a class and you're doing like experiments and things like that. And I remember looking around and going, who are these people? I have never seen these people before. And they were all like, oh, I did my first two years at Grand Valley, or I did my first two years at the community college and I was so blown away by, I never even knew that was an option.
Because you're exactly right. You get this tunnel vision now. I was fortunate enough that I had a full ride so that I could, I could settle on Michigan. It worked for me. It was a big school. I went to a big high school. But if I had been overwhelmed at how big Michigan was, you're exactly right. I could have went to a smaller school, but I think that there's a delicate balance of every year I went to a different college.
Versus, you know, and I think it is very tough at 17. My nephew is going through this right now. He's, you know, waiting to hear from University of Michigan, you know, and so, What, what are, hi. He's got like five different colleges that he's looking at. It's, it's a very, very tense period of time.
Laura Rotter: Yes. And a sense that every decision we make has repercussions for.
So Carolyn, how old were your kids when you relocated, and how did you and your husband negotiate the
Carolyn Jungclas: child's care? So, when we had children, initially we were in Boston and had no support system. And so, you know, we did a, we had actually a live out nanny, first several years of our children's lives, and then she became pregnant with twins, and then we put our kids in daycare.
And the very, the second day of daycare, they both came down with chickenpox. And so I then came down with chickenpox. It was, it was a nightmare and having absolutely no support system. So that's one thing that, to be honest with you, I never really thought through. I'm like, I'm gonna have a baby. You know?
I mean, it wasn't that, it wasn't that flip. But, you know, once we had kids and we moved from the Boston area to North Carolina when our kids were two and five, And you know, what we did was, I knew my job at the power plant was going to be 60, 70 hours a week. I just, I knew it. Right. And so Jeff's job had a lot more flexibility and he knew he was pretty much gonna be working 40 to 45 hours.
So that's where that give and take of, if I take this job, you know, making powers to 24 7. Situation. And so there were many, you know, nights and weekends that I got calls to come into work. And so that's where you have to really get serious and say, Hey, I know this is gonna be a lot of money. But here's the realities of how this works.
And you know, we had a wonderful support system in our church. The Mother Goose, which was the, the childcare place that my husband dropped the kids off every day on the way to, his way to work was wonderful. You know, great neighbors, things like that. So yeah, it was tough. It really
Laura Rotter: is part of the determination.
Like you said, it can't only be about money. I, I too was lucky enough, I, I had three kids very close in age and, um, my husband, both financially and character logically was the one to be the primary caregiver. You know, that he, he stepped back to be Dr. Mom for a bit. You know, and work part-time. But yes, it is a conversation you have to have who is gonna be around when the kids have a day off from school or a sick day.
So it's an important to negotiate. How old are your kids now,
Carolyn Jungclas: by the way? My daughter will be 33 this year, and my son is 29. Got it. So
Laura Rotter: I gue I guess they turned out
Carolyn Jungclas: okay. They turned out really great. They both have good jobs. They're off the payroll, Laura, so that's, uh, that's kind of amazing. It is when that happens.
Laura Rotter: So Carolyn, how did you end up moving from power plants to financial services? What was the impetus?
Carolyn Jungclas: Well, you know, sometimes for those people that understand this, that the hand of God when you don't pay attention the first time, he hits you really hard in the head the second time. So, um, yeah, I'd worked for many, many years in the power industry.
It's a 24 7 job. A lot of stress. I was traveling a lot and it was really taking a toll on my family, my health, and my marriage, and. At a point certain there was an opportunity for me to leave through a reorganization and some other things, and so I took a severance package and left, and that was the first time I had not worked since I was 16.
I. And I really just decided I needed to get myself together. My daughter was a senior in high school. Um, my son was a freshman and you know, I had missed out on a lot in the pursuit of money and you know, I mean, I love my job, but you know, again, networking so important. I knew someone who knew someone who asked me to.
Give a presentation at the bank when I was working for the power company, uh, about vendor management. And when, um, I left the power company, which was shortly thereafter, um, I was approached by. These folks and they said, Hey, would you be willing to start this up? And I said, look, I'm, I'm tired. I'm really tired.
I'm taking time off. And they were like, Hey, you could do this as a consultant. I was like, look, I'm gonna do it, but I'm only gonna do it halftime. I'll work from eight to noon. And they were like, Hey, that's, if you can do it in that period of time, great. And so I started working at First Citizens and absolutely fell in love with the company.
The holding family is some of the nicest people that roam the earth. They're very good Christian people. They really care about their customers, they care about their employees. And so after a time I was offered the opportunity to, to work at the bank and manage this program that I had created. And the responsibilities grew and I worked there for 14 years and absolutely loved it.
I loved the people, I loved the work, and I did a lot of really great things there, and I got a lot of satisfaction out of working there. So a lot of the skills that I had were very transferable. The power plant industry is heavily regulated. Um, you know, the nuclear regulatory committee, the ferc, and so moving to a highly regulated banking industry.
You know, I understood what regulatory expectations were, so it was, it's actually sounds like a gigantic leap, but there's a lot of parallels and similarities. Yeah.
Laura Rotter: Thanks for describing that. It does sound like there are, and Carolyn, when you think about your skills, you know, what would you say your, your strongest skills are?
Carolyn Jungclas: I've been lucky enough to where I've been able, the jobs I've been able to do, I'm very big on teams and cultivating teams and, and growing people. I'm also very big on process, looking at things and saying, is there a better way to do this? And then, you know, as side. Benefit to doing procurement for, you know, 15, 16 years.
I really like to do things that where you come up with a problem and trying to solve it with other people. So be being a. Fairly high extrovert. It's really important to me to work with other people. So to me, a lot of my strengths is kind of circle around collaboration, understanding. Okay. Laura, what is your issue with this?
Okay, Debbie, what is your issue with this? Okay, bill, what is your issue? And bringing people together to solve problems. Thank you for clarifying
Laura Rotter: that. Cause what you had described sounded very. Internal and you do strike me as, as a people person, Carolyn. So I was trying to figure out where the people skills came in cuz they're, they're very clearly there.
And
Carolyn Jungclas: you, you touched
Laura Rotter: on it as you're looking at this life journey that you continue to be on. What role has, has faith played and continues to play
Carolyn Jungclas: well? So interesting because, What I have been doing is being patient, not really, but trying to practice patience and you know, I've had some opportunities that that have come up that have really drug on for a long time, and I just said, God.
If that door is gonna be open, I'll be standing right there. And if it's closed, I'm moving on. And something that had been in the work for months that recently. Came to thank you so much. But no, I, I was not upset. I was very much okay, that means that I'm not supposed to do that. I've done everything I could to, to be prepared for that role, but that's not what I'm supposed to do.
And so it's opened up to some other opportunities that maybe I would have been too busy to do. And so really saying, what is it that I should be doing at this point? And you know, you blink your eyes in 10 years have passed, right? So as my friend and colleague Pam Maxton says, the sixties are your go-go years.
The seventies are your slow years and the eighties are your no-go years. So, Having just turned 60, I want to make this really my go-go years and enable me the flexibility to do what I wanna do, and that's where the financial freedom of having made some, some. Good decisions with my husband over the years, but making some really significant course corrections, maybe 10 or 15, probably 10 years ago, and just saying like, what are we spending money on?
Why are we doing this? And so I have really just been listening to what God is putting in front of me. And the thing I've learned is when you ask him for patience, he gives you a lot of opportunity to practice patience. And I will not be asking for that again. Cause it's very hard. It's very hard. So, Carolyn, as you're thinking about it, what kind of.
Course
Laura Rotter: corrections Did you make about
Carolyn Jungclas: 10? Yeah. Or two years ago. So, you know, j Jeff and I have always worked with a financial advisor and. You know, we would go to our meetings and of course I'm wheeling in from a meeting somewhere in rally on two wheels, 20 minutes late. And you know, Jeff Boss is hard as sitting there going, well, she's late again.
You know, and I'm like, do you know how, you know what responsibilities I have? And, you know, it was like chaos. And, you know, we would get in that room and, you know, talk about our financial goals and, and then it would be like, okay, so where are you guys? And it'd be like, well, you know, we have. $5,000 in the checking account.
I'm thinking we have 5,000. What? That's all the money we have. I'm like killing myself. I'm bringing in bonuses, what? You know, and Jeff's like, well, you know, we don't just have 5,000. We have some other money, but like we can't touch that money. And so our financial advisor was just like, look, you guys have to get on the same page.
Like Jeff. You can't be like telling Carolyn that. There's not money when there is, and Carolyn, you need to take like a more active role. You can't just, you can't just like abdicate that to job. So again, where does faith play the role in my friend Deb, who is always thinking of great things at church for me to do, bless her heart, said.
Carolyn, I saw this thing on Dave Ramsey that he has this course, financial Freedom. I think it would be great. What if you teach it? I was like, sure. I'm, I'm only working like seven days a week. Why? Why not? And I am. I am at heart, a teacher. I love to teach things. I love to learn things, and so I was like, okay, why not?
It's only like eight weeks or something, so having never taught it before, I offered it up at the church and had, I don't know, we maybe had 10 or 12 people, and it just gave a really good framework for Jeff and I to get on the same page. Jeff likes to monitor things to the penny, which is great, and even coming up with a way to report on the budget that, you know, Jeff would take, here's our gross, and he would, you know, take all the, okay, this is how much taxes and this is how I was like Jeff and Dave Ramsey said just.
Write down what your take home pay is. And I was like, thank you Dave for that. And so Jeff's like, I'm still keeping track of that. I said, Jeff, you can, but it's way too much information for me. So we have been doing that and the first meeting almost resulted in separation. I have to, you know, Dave was like, give yourself the opportunity to sit down.
And since I have left my job, As we've, you know, and again, this, there was a lot of discussions with our financial advisor, do we have enough money? You know, what is the future gonna look like? What are we spending money on? And it was a, it was a very, very intentional discussion with Jeff and myself. So the other day, Jeff's like, you know, we got new furniture and I've been doing a bunch of other things in the house.
And Jeff's like, Carol, I feel like, you know, we're spending a lot of money. I was like, well, Let's get the spreadsheet out. And we took, I took the spreadsheet and I showed him, you know, cash in, cash out, what are we doing? And I said, Jeff, here's where we are. And he's like, oh, perfect. It was a five minute conversation that without that framework, Would've just resulted in mayhem.
And so that's probably been the best set of tools for our family that allowed us that major course correction with money, and I truly believe allowed me to leave a. Significant paying job and looked for what I wanted to do in my go-go years. Thank you
Laura Rotter: so much for articulating that. I love how clear you are that when you have the language right, you have the language, you have the clarity
Carolyn Jungclas: to
Laura Rotter: make.
Decisions. I mean, often people don't quite understand what work with a financial advisor is. People think, oh, I, you know, I invest my money with Vanguard. It's like, that's such a small piece. So where are you now? As you have your patience and watch.
Carolyn Jungclas: Well, I'm, I'm doing a number of things. I'm doing some really cool things.
I, I am working with and doing a, uh, a couple consulting. Things related to procurement. I'm also a giant hand crafter, so I've been doing a lot of, a lot of crafting and, and really doing a lot of things that I never had time to do. I set a goal this year to read a hundred books, fiction books, and then to read 15 business books I have, which I am.
I've already read 22 books, but you know, do it while you can. I do it while I'm walking on the treadmill. I do it, you know, while my husband's working. I do it while I'm at the, you know, at an appointment waiting. And so I've, I've been doing that. I also have had the opportunity to, um, through the recognized expert, one of the gals asked for somebody to.
Pre-read her book. So I was, I had the time to do that and I gave her a bunch of feedback on the book and it was, it was, you know, again, this is the teacher in me. So it was it. There's a lot of things that I have had the opportunity to do that working in a full-time job. Just didn't afford me, and when I took this course, and I cannot remember the name of it that Pam Maxton offered through the recognized expert, she asked the question, how much is enough?
And so when you look at it and you say, okay, in my current sp current spending habits, which are not gonna be indicative of when I'm 70 or 80, if I have enough money to live to 110 years old, why am I working? And really, for me, the answer is, that's my identity. That's what I did. I worked. And so creating that.
Alternate identity. And I loved on the salon of 50 plus, when Deb said, Carolyn, you're an entrepreneur. That's what you are. And I said, wow, you know that. That's okay. That's okay. Because how do I introduce myself? I don't have a job. Are you retired? I don't know yet. She said, Caroline, just tell everybody you're an entrepreneur.
Which
Laura Rotter: it's true. I mean, so many of us women of a certain age decide to become entrepreneurs cause we have the choice, perhaps, of financial freedom or at least not having the same kind of income we had in the past, but we're, we're too young to just
Carolyn Jungclas: not do
Laura Rotter: anything. Right. Stop working entirely. Right.
Right. And often the hardest thing is exactly what you're naming Carolyn, which is. Our self talk, you know, who, who am I now? And some, you know, if we could reframe that to be exciting that we have that question as opposed to anxiety provoking, which it sounds like you are in the process of doing,
Carolyn Jungclas: uh, yeah, and, and in fact on the salon of 50 plus, we had this discussion about reframing that to, oh, I get to do that instead of, You know, saying, well, I, I'm not, I'm not working full-time right now.
Oh, well, I get to go to New Jersey to the salon of 50 plus weekend because I can leave Friday because I, I don't have a full-time job. And I have financial freedom. So nice to hear you say that. So yeah, I think reframing that. Reframing that.
Laura Rotter: So I, I do like to ask the question as we get towards the end of our discussion with, which is, how have you redefined success for yourself, perhaps financial
Carolyn Jungclas: success?
The thing for me, Was, and, and my husband, Jeff and I are still kind of trying to wrap our head around You work for 40 years and, and then. All of a sudden you have to start spending and you don't have this replenishment. And really, again, giving a plug to our financial advisor. When I was in a situation where I wasn't sure during a merger, whether I was going to be the surviving executive, uh, which turned out to be, I said, okay, run the Montecarlo as they do.
And tell me what happens if I quit or I lose my job. And they said, Carolyn, you, you don't have to work. And I was like, Chris, when like, when were you gonna tell me this? He said, Carolyn, I know you love your job, but I said, okay, you the, I see this 98% deal. No, give me the numbers. And so he gave me a spreadsheet.
I'm a little bit of an exhale junkie, and I looked at the numbers and I was like, oh my gosh. There. There's enough money. There's enough money. And so really coming to that realization, and that's the thing, again, this framework where Jeff was like, all right, Carol, you bought new couches. You bought some new chairs.
You bought some new rugs. We're going to New Orleans. You're going to Europe. Like, and I was like, Jeff, look at the, look at the numbers. It's okay. So having that framework and also. I'm a planner. I can tell you what I'm doing in 2025. I have a plan. My husband, every, every year for the last 38, I say to him on Friday, what are you doing this weekend?
I don't know. You know, because that's how, that's how Jeff does not now. He is a meticulous guy. He can build anything. He can do anything. He's a super smart computer engineer. But he doesn't plan like I do. So trying to get on the same page where, and we just had this discussion yesterday, what is my budget for going to Europe?
That's all he needs to know so that he's not, you know, I'm, he's thinking $5,000 and I'm thinking 25,000 or whatever the number is gonna be. So I think getting on the same page with that, but it is a very large transition of. What happens if, and truly Laura, the answer is if something bad happens, you can always get another job.
Right? So I think having those conversations is really key. And having the conversations with our financial advisor who is, you know, has the numbers and is really, has really allowed us a lot of. Just internal peace. I love that.
Laura Rotter: I mean, I, I had a conversation last week with a couple I work with who are nearing, you know, they keep putting it off, but nearing retirement and.
That exact conversation. I've, I've, I, in addition to doing Monte Carlo, I also will give them a number, you know, that they could withdraw. And I said this number, like we discussed earlier, Callen is not set in stone, right? If something, if, as long as we have an agreement that if you know something happens and you need to cut back a bit.
Then you can, you can keep spending the way you're spending now and will constantly monitor for what's going on in the markets for what's going on in your life. Again, a plan is not like one and done, here's the number and call me in 20 years. And it's very scary when you, your whole life you've been working and saving to, uh, to suddenly start withdrawing.
Carolyn Jungclas: Yeah. But it's also very freeing to say, You know what? We're going to New Orleans in the middle of the week. You know, we're not, and, and very, very good friend of ours, Ralph Gba always says, for instance, today is Tuesday, Saturday. He has six Saturdays on a Sunday. So he's been, he's been retired for about two years, but he always says, Carolyn, it's Tuesday, Saturday.
Why would you do wait until Saturday, Saturday to do that? Well, I have to
Laura Rotter: admit that that concept even scares me. It's one
Carolyn Jungclas: thing to like use your financial
Laura Rotter: resources or other scarce resource time. You know, I like the structure. I'm sure you do too. So that that's a whole other discussion of, you know, How you work with time once you leave a paying job to be
Carolyn Jungclas: continued.
Happy to have that discussion with you. Laura. I have a, I have a down. I have a down. So is there anything you'd like to share with our listeners
Laura Rotter: of resources you recommend or anything that comes to mind that. Is helpful for you. You mentioned of course, financial advice as you go through this transition.
Carolyn Jungclas: Well, I think, I think it's very important that, you know, if you are married, to get on the same page with your partner and you know, I was fortunate enough that. My friend Deb volunteered me to teach Dave Ramsey. Love him or hate 'em. It's a great framework and you know, we took what made sense for us. You know, we still use credit cards, but we pay our credit cards off every month.
You know, I think that really. Understanding and paying attention to the numbers. Right, but, but also just even like through the pandemic, as people were freaking out about the stock market and all this other stuff, I never worried about it because we have a financial advisor who was investing and moving our money.
With our full consent and saying, okay, Carolyn, we're moving this to cash. Okay, Carolyn, here's the momentum model. Okay, Carolyn, and having those updated conversations with us, there is no way. And I have a mba. Okay. There is no way that I could have been focused on that and been going through the pandemic at the same time with a full-time job and even being retired.
So I feel like, you know, no matter what it is, and there's a, there's a great book that's called I. The money language or something, and it's about, you know, certain people. How do you value money? Money is very important to me for security because growing up with not a lot of money, you know, I can't imagine being in a situation where I had my credit cards maxed out, I I, that I would lose my mind.
It's just. Not, I wouldn't sleep. Right. And for people who, who are okay with that, that's their choice. So really understanding, and I'd love that you started with the question of. What is your background and your family? How did they manage money? Did they have money? Because we openly talked to our kids about money because we said, do not think that you are going to live the level that we are at.
That took us 40 years to build, and I think that's a really hard thing for kids today because they see the wealth their parents have. And you know, you look and you say, well, how come I can't have that? Well, because it took me 40 years to build this up. And so really understanding that and having the conversations about why are we or are we not doing certain things?
So it's all, it's really all about choice and that's where I think. Having those discussions with your kids. I mean, nobody's teaching kids about credit cards. Nobody's teaching kids about bank loans. Nobody's teaching kids about, you know, when you go to Starbucks and spend $12 a day on a coffee and a whatever, that adds up.
Laura Rotter: Nobody has any idea. I felt very thankful that my kids have asked me for an ex, for example. I mean, because we're outside of New York City, it's a very expensive area. How much of my income should I be spending on rent? How much of my income? Because we never have any idea. No one gives us that information or setting up systems like I did when I left Wall Street of exactly what you mentioned, that every week.
I have a certain amount
Carolyn Jungclas: transferring to a separate checking account that we either spend cash or a debit card
Laura Rotter: so that
Carolyn Jungclas: I at least am aware
Laura Rotter: how quickly do I spend that weekly budgeted amount. And it's not a scarcity. If I spend more than I could just transfer more, you know? But just
Carolyn Jungclas: the knowledge, right?
But it's gotta work for you. It's gotta work for you. And you know, again, going back to the Dave Wright Ramsey financial piece, he gives, you know, Hey, don't spend more than X amount on a, on a car percentage. Don't spend more than X amount on a house. And because, where else are you gonna get that information?
I, I never understood that. I mean, when we bought our first house, I was like, this is a gigantic amount of money. And you know, my parents were like, based on your income and whatever, you guys can deal with this, but I didn't know, you know, so it, it's really about information and choices. But I would say that having a financial advisor has been absolutely key for us and the Dave Ramey financial piece.
Has, has just how many times we have gone back to that and used that framework has really been key for us. That's so great to
Laura Rotter: hear. Well, I love hearing your journey, hearing the role that your values, including your faith have played throughout the time that you described, Anne. Um, I look forward to getting to know you better.
Carolyn, thanks again for being my guest.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Carolyn jla, a procurement strategy consultant,
Carolyn Jungclas: and
Laura Rotter: I'm gonna share some of my takeaways from our conversation. The first takeaway is recognize that a good partnership involves give and take on the part of each of the partners sometimes. As Carolyn describes in her relationship with her husband, Jeff decisions were made to benefit her career.
Other times, decisions were made to benefit his career, and she also notes that a good partnership means creating a framework to talk about money as she and Jeff began to do only 10 years ago. This framework and the relationship with their financial advisor helped them make a huge course correction in their finances, and this led to having more internal peace.
Carolyn Jungclas: Second takeaway.
Laura Rotter: You don't have to have all the answers when you're just starting your career or frankly, at any age. You're just trying to figure it out. You try something, it doesn't work out. You try something else. No decision is ever irrevocable and don't make decisions on the basis of money alone.
It's the whole package. Ask yourself, does it work for my family? Is it the right step to take at this time in my life?
Carolyn Jungclas: Carolyn?
Laura Rotter: Like so many other of my guests noted that networking is so important. It's through her relationships that Carolyn was able to move from her high intensity job, managing a power plant to working 8:00 AM to noon in financial services for First Citizens Bank, so that she could spend more time with her kids and finally, know your skills.
And how they'd be used when considering a career. Carolyn knows herself to be a high extrovert who enjoys cultivating teams and growing people, problem solving and strategic thinking, and she's also a good negotiator as she puts it. She enjoys bringing people together to solve problems, a career in procurement.
Which incorporates all of these skills suits her so well. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to subscribe, so you won't miss next week's episode. If you love the show, a rating and a review would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
Carolyn Jungclas: Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money. In order to support a life of purpose and meaning, go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.