A conversation with Nancy Schwartz, a transformational strategist for executives near or post retirement. Nancy helps her clients develop a clear strategy to create the life they desire.
Nancy Schwartz is the founder of Envision Healthy Retirement, working with business experts who struggle with major life changes around retirement and are ready to live their envisioned lives with a strategic approach and intentional design. Her vision is to transform executives from chaos to clarity, in order to move forward toward a purposeful and healthy retirement life
Nancy shared that she grew up as an only child. She was very close to her father, who encouraged her to believe she could do anything she wanted to. Her father was very transparent, and involved her, and her mother, in conversations about the family finances and investments.
She grew up with a strong work ethic, and remembers washing people's cars at the age of six or seven, when she was barely able to carry the bucket of water! Nancy was interested in both the arts AND science and often had two jobs, pursuing her passion for dance while also holding a corporate position. Her work ethic served her well, as she would often work from seven in the morning until early evening, and then transition to the studio until midnight.
In 2021, Nancy felt that she was no longer growing and that the corporate work she was doing, executive search, no longer challenged her. She began to research the next role that, as she put it, would allow her to spread her wings a little bit more. Her research confirmed that, as she notes on her website, people plan more for a short vacation than they do for a 30 year retirement!
“Retirement is a very secretive word. We often associate it with what’s on the other side. I always say: you are not going to have any idea about what it’s about. I could tell you about it, but it's like saying you were driving a Formula 1 car and now you're driving, I don't know, a family van of some sort”. - Nancy Schwartz
Key takeaways:
- The importance of relationships and community. Nancy noted that we are experiencing an epidemic of loneliness and that, to counter this, especially once we leave the workplace, we have to be intentional about building relationships like we were when building our careers.
- The need for us to nurture play and creativity. As adults, we’ve lost our natural tendency to be curious. Nancy recommends inviting ourselves to let loose and be more playful.
- Find a person or group to be accountable to. Nancy talked about this in the context of putting in place practices to build relationships, though accountability can be used in any area of our lives. If, for example, you say you’re going to have coffee with a friend at least once a week, find someone who will hold you accountable to that commitment.
- Know what drives you. We are not all motivated by the same things. Nancy works with people who have retired and no longer have their work identities, but haven’t yet figured out what they want to do with the rest of their time here. Each person she works with is unique, and will be motivated to move forward differently.
About the guest:
Nancy Schwartz is the Founder and Transformational Strategist of Envision Healthy Retirement. She spent her career in corporate leadership roles, working across a variety of industries in markets ranging from global multinationals to early-stage private equity and venture capital. Her innovative and solution-oriented approach to solving complex issues earned her high praise and recognition.
She is also a classically trained ballerina who has worked for nationally known ballet and modern companies. Today, she is passionate in continuing to study both modern dance and ballet, and enjoys performing new works.
She is a graduate of Skidmore College, and a member of select mentorships in both health and business. She is dedicated to her client’s success and growth as they transform into a healthy retirement life they envision and own.
Linkedin:- https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancy-schwartz-envisionhealthyretirement/
Website:- http://www.envisionhealthyretirement.com
Go to Nancy's website to download "5 Smart Actions for Better Sleep" and to schedule a complimentary Healthy Retirement consulting call.
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Disclaimer: Please remember that the information shared on this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment or financial advice. It’s for informational purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.
Nancy Schwartz: Retirement is a very secretive word. We often associate it with, you know, what's on the other side. I always say, man, you're not gonna have any idea about what it's about. I could tell you about it, but it's like saying you're driving a Formula One car and now you're driving, I don't know, a family van of some sort.
Welcome to Making Change With Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined by financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rotter.
Laura Rotter: So I am so happy to have as my guest today, Nancy Schwartz. She's the founder of Envision Healthy Retirement, which she established to help people just like you construct a vision and a mission for a healthy retirement. As Nancy notes on her website, most people plan more for a short vacation than they do for a 30-year retirement.
Nancy spent her career in corporate leadership roles working across a variety of industries. And she's also a classically trained ballerina who has worked for nationally known ballet and modern companies, and she continues to study both modern dance and ballet, and even performs. So, Nancy, I'm looking forward to learning more about you and your journey and what you're doing now.
So welcome to the Making Change with Your Money podcast.
Nancy Schwartz: Laura, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so excited to be here today in the midst of a potential yet again, another northeaster, but let's do this before the power goes out. Right?
Laura Rotter: And fingers crossed. Yeah. So I'm gonna start with the question I start all my podcasts with, which is, um, what was money like in your family growing up?
Nancy Schwartz: Okay, so let me backtrack a little bit and say that I was an only child, so I have very different experiences than most. I feel very fortunate and privileged. My dad was a brilliant engineer. He always said to me, even I can remember as a very young person, Nancy, you can do whatever you want. And, but I, I had no idea what that meant.
Laura Rotter: Right.
Nancy Schwartz So, you know, and so growing up. I would always be side by side. I was really a daddy's girl, but in the engineering world. So that would be in the accounting, that would be in analyzing the stocks, it would be, uh, being in the basement. Uh, my father had hand magic hands. We used to call him because he could repair, replace anything you brought to him.
I don't know how he, he did what he did. I'd spent hours in the garage or hours on the boat or hours upside down doing something, right. So, it was not unusual for me to get really involved in conversations, listening to him on the phone. And those days you'd have to call your broker to trade things. They didn't have all of that.
Laura Rotter: Right.
Nancy Schwartz: I never knew that living like that was such an unusual experience. I. And that everything with, with him was so transparent. Even as a child, I knew exactly what was what, where was where, and that's just doesn't happen as, as, as you and I know as professionals and I, I don't know what, what possessed that, you know, in, in my lineage, if you will, the genealogy of my family.
There was always two male children and I broke that after six decades of always. Males. Males. Males. I was the first female. So according to my mom, my dad went to to bed for three days. He couldn't get over it. He was like, what a child, wait, not a boy. Wait, wait. What's happening here? But I benefited so much from his teachings and trainings.
I don't know whether he thought about it like that. Like now I am thinking about that cuz you asked this question, but I just feel very empowered that I was able to have that experience because very few people have that.
Laura Rotter:So Nancy can, I just would love to clarify cuz you said he, he was transparent and he told you what was, what are you specifically talking about? Your family's finances?
Nancy Schwartz: Oh, absolutely. He had a ledger that when he was extremely ill, I hired an incredible CPA firm to help us sort through everything. And I presented this ledger and it's legendary. This ledger went through the entire firm and I got a call back and this, this CPA is just an amazing CPA and has an incredible firm and he said, Nancy, I have really bad news for you. And I'm like, Ooh, what's happening? Cuz in the last, uh, year that he was alive, my, my dad did his own taxes. He always did that and he never hired a firm. At the time I was doing multiple books and I was just like, okay Nancy, you gotta hire a firm cuz the, I'm gonna make a mistake clearly somewhere or something.
And so I'm in the middle of everything and he's like, Nancy, you know, like he's making it like I'm gonna go to jail or something or other, you know, he led me along the, the Breadcrumb trail, right? And, and I'm in, I'm in my office and things are blowing up and crazy and I'm like, okay, get to the point.
What's happening? Am I gonna, you know, the, the federal agent's outside gonna take me away, like, what's happening? Tell me. And he goes, ah, gotcha. Your dad was off. Bye. 11 cents. Oh. So to say that he was transparent. Absolutely. I knew where all the books were. He would let me write in the old accounting books, if you recall.
You know, so, you know, I, again, it the different thinking. It's just a different thinking from an engineer. Right. And, and that, I guess he knew that I, I was the only one. Also to have that history of where, where it was, you know, the continuum, right? So you understand the portfolio, all of that kind of stuff.
As I grew. As I grew.
Laura Rotter: Right. So he involved you in the family budget. Did he involve your mother or just you?
Nancy Schwartz: Oh, she was brilliant. She was the one who did a lot of the research in those days, you know, outlook, have to go to the library for that. This was not available information. This was, you know, we read all the company annual reports, we did all, you know, all of this.
Which chapters will you do? We'll do this. We split it up. So from a very young age, so interesting.
Laura Rotter: So I guess I, I see things, you know, two very separate things. So you're saying investments and the family budget, like you knew how much your family spent
Nancy Schwartz: Oh, yes. Each month, absolutely.
Laura Rotter: That is, Fascinating. So where did you grow up?
Nancy Schwartz: Here in Connecticut.
Laura Rotter: Very nice state. So did that inform your choice of, let's say, major in college and then what you thought you after college?
Nancy Schwartz: No. Now much to the disdain of everybody. I was very interested in the arts and and science. So pre-med dance. Had nothing to do with finance, although in dancing you do need to count the music and it can get really, really, really, really complicated.
And in science there's some chemistry, biology, physics somewhere in there. So yeah, there's a little correlation. But yeah, nom,
Laura Rotter: that's so, and I mean, where did pre-med come from Dance? I could see you might have had a natural talent as a dancer,
Nancy Schwartz: so no, I really didn't have that much talent. I thought I had talent.
And why? Pre-med couple of very, my grandfather was a physician. There was a lot of physicians in the family, um, and inventors, excuse me, inventors as well as physicians. So that was really and always on the forefront of, of invention. Um, my granddad worked with Ronkin, who created the x-ray, brought it here to the states.
I, I think, you know, it's always for the betterment of mankind. That's kind of how I looked at it. Um, he was not a good, good, according to my grandmother. He was not good with finance. He was good with people and healing them. And she ran the business basically. She ran it. So there's been some very strong female, what would she say, role models, right?
She, she was actually the one who made, made the money in that family.
I've certainly found as I've, you know, as I speak to people that either being an only child like you, Nancy, or growing up in a family of all girls like I did, there is a way that you don't see that your brother's being treated differently and your parent doesn't have, you know, a male child to treat differently.
And so, You grow up. I think just as you said, you potentially have the ability to grow up feeling like the world is open to you and as we make our decisions. So what did you do graduating from college?
Nancy Schwartz: Got dancing jobs, da dancing, jobs like crazy. I mean, you know, I was very, very lucky with the timing. I had every job I could possibly have and then some choices.
Well, back then there were jobs, you know, for, for qualified, you know, dancers. So I was very, very lucky and performed, but at the same time, I knew that. Unless you're Nikko or Nev, you're not gonna have the global influence. There's maybe one or two a decade that even more a century maybe, that really are those household names of, of that, that kind of quality of per of, uh, of performer.
And I needed, I knew I needed to back up, so I always had the night gig. I, you know, I was always, always working. I'm from a New England people and we work, we work a lot. So
Laura Rotter: Did you work through school?
Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Laura Rotter: Do you remember your first job?
Nancy Schwartz: I would have, well, I started working when I think I was, let's see. We moved here, I think when I was, Six or seven. So my first very entrepreneurial job was to go around the neighborhood with a bucket. In one hand, I could barely carry it and the hose in the other hand, and I would, had had a great car washing business and that would go around to everybody. And, um, they loved me cuz I was so cheap. I'd only charged 25 cents to do their whole car. Prob and I couldn't reach either, so I had to get a ladder. So, uh, you know, that kind of thing. So, uh, yeah, so I've always been working. I'm a, I'm a work girl. Yeah.
Laura Rotter: So interesting. So I guess I took away from how you reacted to the first question that there, that there were adequate finances and yet that doesn't necessarily change your family's work ethic. I mean, was there a feeling like you had to work for pocket money? Or it was just like that's part of what one does.
Nancy Schwartz: You know, I think, I think the training was at a very, very young age. Here's an allowance, but here's a list of things that you gotta get done for that allowance. The household was extremely strict.
There were, like I said, it was just a different world. You know, I didn't know that people didn't operate like this. Maybe I should have rebelled. I don't know, but I, no information, you know, this is what, this is what I was receiving, right. So, um, but I, but um, at the end of the day, I'm very happy about that because, That has served me in, in my career and my life, you know, working hard,
Laura Rotter: Definitely work ethic is certainly, uh, yeah. Helpful discipline to have.
Nancy Schwartz: Hugely, hugely, yeah.
Laura Rotter: And then can sometimes get in our way when we age, but we, we have time to get
Nancy Schwartz: Yes, yes, yes. I'm encountering that now.
Laura Rotter: Yes. So how long did you work for as a dancer? And then what was the transition like? What was the catalyst?
Nancy Schwartz: Yeah, so I have always had two careers going at the same time forever. And even when I was a partner, I had my dance life, which was very, very separate and kept quiet. And then also my corporate career. So I would work, you know, seven in the morning till six-ish, and then from whenever I got to the studio till midnight, you know, I worked where Ivy came, where we were ta talking about your, your prior podcast that was a community of people that we built that it was to build new work, to build new modern work, to create new things and using multiple disciplines as like Ivy said, to have performances where there would be a speaker, where there would be interchange with dance and art and film, and. This is very common now, but when we were doing it, we were one of the first people even in, in the New York area that was, I really saw the discipline as multidiscipline in terms of performance, and now it's just extremely common. To present like this.
Laura Rotter: So I'm going to back you up cuz I'm still like, okay, here's Nancy. She graduated from college, she's a dancer. So this is, I would assume a number of years ago. I think we're similar age, so what was the progression from dancer to, I'm happy to get to the space that Ivy Eisenberg a previous guest talked about, but I still have a large gap between you as a dancer working part-time and a corporate life.
Nancy Schwartz: Right, so, so like I said, I always, I, I kept dual career, so it was a full-time.
Laura Rotter: So you graduated from college and had a corporate job?
Nancy Schwartz: Not a corporate job. I had a job in a nursing registry. And I did that for quite some time and I had the dancing job going full-time. So even while in corporate, I would be dancing full-time and I would have my corporate job when I, I got to corporate and when I got into leadership roles and, and what, whatever. So it's, it's has served me so well. Creating solutions. Stuff happens on stage. You know, things drop from the sky, people don't appear. You know, stuff happens, right? But same thing in in the corporate world, that also happens as well, but your reaction to it and how you solve those problems in the moment, right very much correlated to each other. I know, I know. I'm weird. I know I'm totally weird, but I, you know, I get your questions like, what's that?
Laura Rotter: I guess, and, and I will, I really appreciate you looking at your skills and how the skill you, you have intrinsic to yourself has worked in your various roles. And I find that my listeners who themselves are in the middle of a transition, really benefit from hearing other stories of catalyst for change. Cuz often it's unexpected. So, so you were working for registry at a nursing registry and I know you to have been in leadership roles in corporate, so, How, is there something that happened that you ended up finding a firm that you stayed with for a number of years while you danced in the evening? I'm just curious. Was there a moment?
Nancy Schwartz: You know, I, I wish, I wish I had a very elegant, um, response to that lovely question, but I don't, I was recruited, so I moved from the land of nursing. To the land of, uh, real estate investment banking where we, and I kind of fell forward in that firm and I lucked out in a lot of things that happened. And then I got recruited to executive search, and that's through the tail end of my career. You know, I just fell forward. I wish I was more strategic, and I wish…
Laura Rotter: I, I find no one is strategic, which is why it's always so interesting to hear. Right. We all imagine that we're supposed to make a list, and that is not how life happens.
Nancy Schwartz: Right, right, right. Yes. Life happens. Exactly, exactly what you're saying. And, um, in the midst of that I was caregiving because as an only child I had a lot of responsibility. Not, not only for my parents, but also for others in power of attorney and things like that. So, to say that those years were, those were decades full of no sleep, you know, so, um, lot, lot of responsibility, but my training right, kept me going forward.
Laura Rotter: So, Nancy, you did, we did sort of allude to the skill, your inherent skill sets that have helped you in all these different roles. But now I'd love to ask you to think more specifically about what those skills are and, and share that.
Nancy Schwartz: Yeah, so I mean, I think they're simple things. I think they're really simple things. I, I, I don't feel I have any. Anything special that nobody else has? I feel that I have a great sense of humor, and humor is needed at all times. I feel that I'm really a very good listener. I'm usually the last person to talk and building this business. All of a sudden I have to be the front person and be the mouthpiece, and that's been challenging for me because. I've always been the listener, even though I will come up and then make a statement, but I'm not the, the first person out of the gate, if you will. So that's a, that's a change. I think that I'm very business savvy. I have this gut, like I, I, I can't explain it to you, and I'm sure you have it too, Laura, with all your years, but, you know, in, in my, my years in executive search, literally within the first 30 seconds of interviewing somebody, I would know instantly, okay, I wanna continue this interview or not.
And where I ranked this person, I mean, it's terrible to say that these are the metrics of of major corporate global. I mean, my firm was the number one globally and still is, and assessing I have, I have a good eye to assess. The landscape. So meaning let's just say you're the CEO and you're looking for your CFO or you're looking for divisional president or whatever, whatever the situation is.
And oftentimes the clients one had no idea what they wanted, really no, um, no strategic. Not only what they wanted in terms of a person, but where they were growing that business. Right? How, how they were growing. And so I had that ability to come in and say, okay, we're gonna look at your corporate competitors, right?
If there were any, maybe they weren't, who knows? You know, maybe a much smaller company and then be able to say, okay, but then you wanna go here, or we don't know where you're going, or, you know, what's happening in their competitive space. Right? And from an outside point of view, we don't know the inside, right?
Of course we can't know the inside, but, and be able to say, this is this, so if you want that point over here, if you want here, point here. If you want three degrees to the right point here. So I always had that ability. I have no idea how or why, but it just made rational sense because, normally when people are hiring, it becomes very personal and it needs to be, in my opinion, to be successful, less dramatic.
That's why I always say I don't do drama anymore. Cause it can be a lot of drama and I don't do crazies either. I've done with that too, but it can be both. And I, I think you have to paint a very broad picture when you're starting and then you just have to keep narrowing it down. And as your business moves, the asks right may change and shift a little bit as well.
So being able to move with, with that was, was really important as well. And Michael, you know, a lot of the global companies, they knew. You know, the way they do two years in advance, they know so-and-so's being promoted, so-and-so's slipping in from the inside, or oh gosh, he just got recruited by our competitor.
We need a back immediate, you know, whatever the thing is. Or, and then that's a known business basically. And to run it and to kind of be the, the maintenance person. But then again, there may be more private equity or venture. We've never done this before, and so I'd have to make up the person I would work with many of these where we're technical roles where I'm like, okay, wait, explain to me again, what is it that you're looking for?
Cause I don't, I'm not sure. So, the role didn't exist, right? So we had to make up what this person would look like and try to, well this one has three of the four, this one has this, this one. You know, trying to solve that problem other than because they don't have time to school. Right? Create that school so that they can have backfill so that they can grow their own company until they do, and they, and they would have that, you know,
Laura Rotter: Thanks for, for thinking about that and something I heard you say between the lines, I guess several things. First of all, that that you are intuitive, right? You said when, when you've met people that you sort of could tell,
Nancy Schwartz: I can feel it. Yeah.
Laura Rotter: Right. Which is definitely a skill. And then you had mentioned earlier when. You know, sort of putting all your experiences into a pot, sort of a sense of resilience that you could think on your feet and respond to, to change.
Does that resonate with you?
Nancy Schwartz: I, I think, I think so. I think life is all about change, right? And particularly in the business world. I mean, look what happened over the weekend. You know, I don't wanna timestamp your podcast, but you know, A lot can go down in a, in a 24 hour period.
Laura Rotter: So yes, over this weekend, Silicon Valley Bank failed and was taken over by regulators for any of you listening to this when we publish the podcast. Yes. So interesting times.
So I'm enjoying this conversation and hearing how you've always been someone in some ways remaking yourself or. Open to how did this particular iteration of, I'm done with the corporate world and I'm going to challenge myself to help others in retirement. How did that come about?
Nancy Schwartz: What I would say to that is I knew that I was done with corporate. I just knew, and it was of my own volition. I still have people calling me even. You know, this year, Nance, please come back. But I felt that I wasn't growing. And I felt that the searches were kind of the same. In other words, the same metrics, the same style, that type of thing.
They were not the same, but, but the process, I guess more is what I'm trying to say. And I just felt like, wow, I feel like I, I can really. I don't know. I, I, I just feel like I can spread my wings a little bit more. That's what, that's what I was feeling. So I went down all these avenues. I thought, well, I'll volunteer here, or well, I'll go do this or, this sounds great.
I'll go down this path. I can't tell you how many paths I went down that I turned around and I said, you know, you and I were having this phone conversation, Laura, you know, Loved it, but uh, yeah, that's not it yet. You know, that's not it yet. Right.
Laura Rotter: Oh, so what, could you share some of the things you thought about?
Nancy Schwartz: Yeah, sure. So I thought about a lot of volunteer opportunities and they just weren't enough where they just weren't satisfying or. I didn't really enjoy the people, or I felt I could do so much more. They would just gimme some more reins. But it was very clear that the role was X, Y, Z, whatever it was right? And then also in my journey, I felt that there's so many retirement coaches out there, right? When I was looking at the marketplace and I did study. Retirement. And my assessment of that is that, wow, this is great. They give you a lot of analytics, they give you a lovely report back and they tell you you are here.
And I'm like, fabulous. Now what? And they really didn't have the tools of the trade. To figure out and, and granted this was three or four years ago when I was taking these classes.
Laura Rotter: And what is the retirement coach again? Are you referring to financial?
Nancy Schwartz: No, for from, from a person. From a person point of view. Not financial. From a person point of view. Right. So, and they helped transition you from a career ish, wherever you are in your career. Out. Right. And as we know, it's complicated and it's, it's can have a lot of pitfalls. And it requires thought and. What I found in the marketplace is there was no education really around this process, but I felt it was very hollow and, but then I, you know, I continued on my, my learnings and all that kind of good stuff, just like you have done with, with what you've done.
And I said, you know, here's the sweet spot. Finding that sweet spot of the marketplace. It's about health, right? And if we don't have health, and now even more so, my, my premise has been confirmed because there's so much out there now. So I feel almost you're living another lifespan right in. And so we, we want to, for me particularly, I wanna make sure my health span equals my lifespan, right?
So, so that, I couldn't find that in the marketplace. So that was kind of like, okay, well why not try this? So, um, I just hung a shingle and there you go.
Laura Rotter: Which I have to commend you. It's so brave. You yourself said, you're, you enjoy being a listener and being the front person is a growth opportunity for you.
And, um, so Nancy, could you walk us through, walk me through, if I were to call you and be. Interested in working with you? What are the kind of things we would do or talk about together?
Nancy Schwartz: This is an education and this is a process. Uh, I think just very much like your financial services. And I think what is so interesting is that retirement is a very secretive word. We often associate it with, you know, what's on the other side. I always say, Man, you're not gonna have any idea about what it's about. I could tell you about it, but it's like saying you're driving a Formula One car and now you're driving, I don't know, a family van of some sort, right? It's a very, very different texture, complexion, et cetera.
So there's an identity change, which is for people who have not done that. Staggering because people have a beautiful, amazing, successful careers redefining, you know, where, where they wanna be, right? So I talk about, I've built a 12 week proprietary process and we walk through personal growth, but we usually have personal growth in our career.
But all the other stuff, there's not much, it's left behind, right? Because we're so focused, at least that was my case and many of my clients. And then I talk about what are we gonna do with the time, right? What are we gonna do with the time? And there's, I talk about that it's a white paper, right? That all options are on the table.
It's like building a business. You are that business, right? You are that business. How you look at it, how you shape it, that it's constantly moving. It's not static. Don't be afraid to just throw darts at it and you can pull out the dart and throw again, you know? It's okay. And then I talk about really the holistic mind, body, soul. And I think that in my, my corporate career and certainly in my dancing, let's backtrack. Let me say this. I always didn't think about my health. I, it just came along. Laura, I was very lucky. I was never sick. I was always at work. It didn't matter if I was sick, family crisis, you know, the cat died, whatever.
I was there, right? So, And now I'm very aware of my health. Do I feel tired? How do I feel? Ooh, perhaps that was too much at the gym, or, ooh, perhaps not enough at the gym on specific things or breathing or mental, you know, stress releasing and things like that. So it's a very cohesive. Formula to bring people in in line and often people don't even know about half the things that I'm talking about or they know about it, but, but there's also that support and accountability to get people to do that part, just like in financial services or your dj, you know that that's a big deal.
Laura Rotter: It's the hardest part.
Nancy Schwartz: It's, it's, and then in terms of finance, I teach what I call non-financial finance. People are like, what is that? What do you do? And it's all getting the paperwork, the dreaded paperwork in place. I had several experiences, um, where that paperwork was not in place and I had several experiences where it was in place.
And it is two separate worlds, so can encourage people more to really have it updated
Laura Rotter: And to be as powers of attorney, healthcare, proxy,
Nancy Schwartz: All of the above, thinking about legacy and, and around that, right? Laura, if you were in my family, or maybe you were my best friend, or maybe you were my neighbor, and you know, in my sphere of, of influencers, Laura, I wanna tell you about, you know, What I want in my end stages, you know, I just wanna communicate this. Nobody's communicating and I've had, again, fantastic experience with my parents and not so fantastic experiences with many other situations that I've been involved with. So I, I can't tell you the, and I, and I know, I know, you know, cuz you're all about that stuff too, that, how important that is to get that wrapped up.
Laura Rotter: And those conversations, Nancy, are, are hard,
Nancy Schwartz: Extremely hard.
Laura Rotter: People are not always open to it.
Nancy Schwartz: Exactly. It, it exposes a vulnerability. It exposes in, in my world, it exposes, uh, mortality, it exposes. Fractured relationships. There's a lot of exposure going on around this, you know, a reckoning of of life. Right.
It's really a reckoning.
Laura Rotter: well, it's really admitting, I mean, my husband actually, cuz I brought this up recently cuz his mother. You know, amazing energetic women just turned 90. And there are certain conversations we haven't had, and though I've had with my husband, but he joked to me, well, I'm gonna live forever, so I don't need, I don't need to have that kind of conversation. Of course we do, we have updated our estate planning documents, but, but it's not an easy thing for people to do.
Nancy Schwartz: No. And then, and I really credit my, really, my father who, you know, again, When I was in my, was it late thirties or early forties? Probably. I brought through the whole process. He said, I'm doing this, so you should do it too.
So I walked side by side with him. Amazing. Right? Amazing experience. Who does that in their thirties and forties? You don't, it's maybe that's, I don't know, some kind of something, but. So grateful for the experience, right? So grateful that I can communicate that right? And the importance to have that conversation to be open like that, which as you say, is just so difficult and rightly so.
Rightly so, for people, right? So, so that's important. And then, you know, certainly with Covid and certainly with, you know, zoom ish. Technology times, right? This sensitivity around relationships and around community. And there's been all sorts of, and I, I'm sure you follow the data, Laura, but there's just been all these science points of view that while money isn't really important, uh, most people on their deathbed or, you know, if you do a poll like Harvard's done and many other places.
Relationships do matter, and we have an epidemic of loneliness factor here. And so it's, it's like a piece of your business that you've gotta put in place because what most people think, and I don't know how it was with you when you left corporate, but I really thought. That my colleagues would be happy for me and would support me.
And none of that has come into play, the selective people. But, so that means carving out new relationships and building different communities and, and same with my clients, right? So, and that's, that's work. That's really work. I mean, you really have to apply yourself, in my opinion, you know, particularly I'm an introvert, so that's really challenging for me.
One of my clients was an introvert, and and he said to me, yeah, me and I have to call 'em on the phone. Yeah, I think so. And maybe meet them for a coffee. That would be a good start. So, yeah, I mean, it was really, really challenging. So that, and then curiosity, right?
We as adults have lost our play, our curiosity. And I talk about, you know, this expansive, I mean, I'm sure you're doing things now, Laura, that you never thought you would do. When you were operating, right? I'm sure of that. Um, I'm doing this podcast. I didn't even have podcasts back when I was, and you were doing your things. So, you know, that's, that's the fun, that's the fun part of our world right now.
Laura Rotter: Yeah. I love it. Thanks for pointing all those little variables out that really create what I always say, a truly abundant life, Nancy. You are reminding me of the importance of having accountability and someone to work with around this. I do work with each client to have a wheel of life and to have them rate areas of their lives besides money, but community, home relationships, family, spiritual life. Learning, and I don't define it for them.
And I recently had a client say, well, what do you mean by community? And I said, you know, well, what does community mean to you? But that being said, it's just a moment in time. It's not like I'm holding them accountable the next time we meet. Did you, did you have coffee with someone?
And you and I know how important it is to invest in. Relationships when, when I worked on Wall Street for close to 30 years, I, and had a family, I really didn't have the time to invest in relationships and my relationships other than with my husband and, you know, suffered.
Nancy Schwartz: Well, you had relationships within the firm, but that's it. Not outside.
Laura Rotter: Yeah, but that's, and I do have some women, actually most of my relationships were not people I worked with in the firm, but. People who were in the same industry as I was working for other firms, and I do have some, but what I really did do is make an intentional effort to build relationships now, and as you said, The fact that I'm talking to you independent of the creativity of starting a podcast, but that I have the time to meet with other women and get to know them is such a gift.
And I too am an introvert though. I, I find that one-on-one, I thrive. It's walking into a room with a hundred people or I don't know anyone, thankfully I didn't have to do throughout the pandemic that, you know, doesn't really speak to my strengths. Um, And um, and I, and I know of studies, certainly they've showed the studies of people who are not married have shorter their lifespans and, you know, just points to the importance of relationships as we age.
You know, once we know that, As you said, you know, we have a roof over our head. We, we can pay for healthcare. You know that the finances are okay, but I think I might have said this to you when we first met, which is so many people come to me cuz they're ready, ready to retire from, you know, do I have enough money? Can I stop working? When can I do that? But the conversation is just as important as to what are you retiring to because the exhilaration of time freedom wears off very quickly.
Nancy Schwartz: Well, there, well, there, as you know, there's, there's many different stages in retirement and Exactly. That there's that party like, I'm free.
Yes. Don't have to go to work. Yes, I can, you know, read my book instead of being on the train or whatever, whatever the situation is, but, That becomes very hollow pretty quickly and then, then that feeling of, you know, like free fall and feeling lost or confused or, I mean, it really is overwhelming. Like where do we, where do you start?
You know, I always said that in my corporate career I was so blind, I was like a horse in a race and I was blinded, right? So that I would look at the other horses and see where they are and whatever that I was on my track. You know, that's what I was doing. And now I'm like, wow, look at that. There's other things.
You know what I mean? So, right. You know, so it's having that curiosity and, and letting that evolve in, you know, as it as it should reveal itself. Right. It takes the right time. Time that that person is ready to receive that this is, you know, as, as I said on the front end, it's very much a process and I'm, I'm sure very similar to your business.
This is not a Laura, we're gonna meet for a day session and we're done. We're good for life. You know, but it's not, it's a process. Uh, growth right through the, these different, different, uh, segments of life. And I always used to say, I wish I could get my personal life aligned with my business. Everything's going well, but there's always one area that's a little haywire.
At least for me. It's always, we got, it's going on over there, so it's, it's trying to get everything congruent. And that's a, that's a natural process, right? That, and as, as everything sort of moves forward, oh man, ooh, I left that behind. Better bring along. You know? So, it's, it's that kind of thing.
Laura Rotter: It's truly a change, right? And then, you know, what, what is that purpose that's bigger than you? You know, those are, those drive. What are the driving forces for you? And every, everybody's different, right? So what your. Your things are would be very different than mine. We could have a lot of similarities, but you are you very unique individual.
Nancy Schwartz: Same with me. So there's no cookie cutter type of. Situation. Right. And I think we need to honor ourselves for that, particularly having worked for so long. Right. Uh,
Laura Rotter: I, I'd have to say that the population you work with, Nancy, and as we age, we do tend to be people who are thinking about mission and thinking about purpose. Not everyone, but energy is one of our scarce resources and to just. Do what we need to do. Build community, let's say, or get in better health. You can't do it from a a, from a sense of should. There has to be something calling you to change your lifestyle and change how you approach life. And, um, one of the, the positives of aging is that you do get more in touch with, with your purpose and your why.
So, I'm curious, Nancy, you, you're a self-described woman with a work ethic and talked about having blinders when you were on the corporate track. So how has your definition of success and perhaps even financial success shifted?
Nancy Schwartz: Well, I, I would say in the corporate world it was title and cash and we're still fighting that diversity gap, if you will, unfortunately. But over on this side of the table, I would say that I'm still interested in the cash for what I can do with it. Right. And I am still interested in my passion and my mission and my, my values have changed. Certainly. You know, you talked about that identity shift, and so my focus is very, very different now.
I'm very focused not on serving a company, even though one of them was mine, but serving rather others, not just myself. Right? So I think that that it's a much bigger. Impact statement than just single focus retained executive search.
Laura Rotter: Yeah. Well, I guess my journey, so hoping not to be projecting on you, A lot of my journey has been to demand less energy of myself, to put less shoulds on myself, and I recognized that impetus to do it had served me very well for my entire life. And now that I'm older, I'm not, I don't feel like it's serving me the same way. And so a lot of my practice has been to recognize that my goals have shifted and the goal of. A 30 year old financial advisor or a 40 year old financial advisor is very different than mine.
And to be okay with that, I'm bringing it because it's, it's a practice to get there. So I'm always curious how others may have shifted their demands of themselves in terms of definition of success.
Nancy Schwartz: This is a very timely. Question because I've been reassessing, uh, this year and I'm sure it will continue onward and onward every year for sure. But what I would say is that I believe I'm a high performer and I believe that I've always been a high performer. In that comes with a lot of baggage that I'm beginning to recognize that I've really pushed myself beyond my mental and physical health in, in instances that really I had no choice, right?
Caring for other people, that type of situation. And this year saying, okay, I feel that I can have some compassion toward myself. You know, something last weekend or yesterday and and, and Saturday I went to beautiful dance performances. Now should I have been working? Yes. But I said, no, it's the weekend.
You know what I mean? Oh, I'm gonna go to an evening, I'm gonna go to to the Joyce and to BAM and enjoy the performance. So yes. Yes. To me, that's self-compassion. Yeah. I think, I think I have, I'm beginning to shift, let's, let's put it that way, beginning to shift.
Laura Rotter: Thank you so much for sharing that. And I. I love that you've recognized that it, it helps to bring compassion towards yourself and that it's something that we're really not taught to do.
I think we very naturally bring judgment to ourselves. So Nancy, if any of our listeners want to reach out to you and learn more about how they can envision a healthy retirement, how would they get in touch with you?
Nancy Schwartz: Very simply on my website, it's envisionhealthyretirement.com. And I'll say it one more time.
It's Envision E NV I S I O N healthy retirement.com. On there, there's a complimentary sleep magnet, which please, we all need sleep, so please download that. And, um, there's a opportunity to sign up for a complimentary discovery call to discuss options of, of what, uh, the client may want.
Laura Rotter: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation, Nancy, and we will continue it.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nancy Schwartz, the founder of Envision Healthy Retirement. Some things I came away from our conversation with are the importance of relationships and community. Nancy noted that we are experiencing an epidemic of loneliness, and that to counter this, especially once we leave the workplace, we have to be intentional about building relationships like we were when we were building our careers.
Another takeaway is the need for us to nurture. Play and creativity. As adults, most of us have lost our natural tendency to be curious. Nancy recommends inviting ourselves to let loose and to be more playful. Another recommendation is to find a person or group to be accountable to. Nancy talked about this specifically in the context of putting in place practices to build relationships, but of course, accountability can be used in any area of our lives.
If, for example, you say you're going to have coffee with a friend at least once a week, find someone who will hold you accountable to that commitment. And finally, know what drives you. We are not all motivated by the same things. Nancy works with people who have retired and no longer have their work identities but haven't yet figured out what they want to do with the rest of their time here. Each person she works with is unique and will be motivated to move forward differently. Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe, so you won't miss next week's episode. If you are enjoying the show, please leave a rating and review an Apple podcast.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money. In order to support a life of purpose and meaning, go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.