An interview with Martha Legare, Executive Leadership Coach. Martha coaches leaders and teams in managing organization change using assessments, insight, and communication tools that make them successful.
Martha Legare is a behavioral scientist, an MBA, PMP, CMP, ACE & EMCC Coach, and a consultant with deep expertise in project management and organization change. Martha formed a startup with 2 partners before it was trendy (they are still friends), and then managed a manufacturing plant in California. For the last 20 years, she's been consulting and coaching, leading projects, and helping clients manage organizational change.
Martha shared that she grew up on a dairy farm in Virginia, and was aware that her family had had a lot of money, and then lost it due to bad investments. This experience taught her about financial resilience, long before she stepped into the boardroom.
Having come from a family of entrpreneurs, Martha never held a traditional corporate job. Her skills, confidence and optimism accompanied her throughout her journey from business owner, to general manager of a manufacturing plant to her role today as a corporate consultant and executive leadership coach.
“I think failure is a major learning point, that if you're successful at first, then you don't understand the impact of things going wrong and that makes you less likely to be successful the second time. If you fail at first, then you know you have to do some kind of work around or you have to change the scope of where you're headed” - Martha Legare
Key takeaways:
- Know that failure is a major learning point. As Martha notes, when you’re an entrepreneur you’re not going to progress without taking risks that can result in failure. If you’re successful at first, then you don’t understand the impact of things going wrong. If you fail at first, then you know you have to do some kind of work around or you have to change the scope of where you're headed.
- People who are lucky are the ones who are just open, who don’t have preconceptions. Martha shared how she was in California on vacation and, while she was at a cocktail party, learned about a position that was open for a general manager which led to her next role. She considers herself a lucky person, and attributes that to being open, as well as being skilled in pattern recognition.
- Start saving early. Looking back, the biggest thing that Martha would change is to start saving early; she didn’t really think about saving until she hit the age of 40. She’s been fortunate that her earnings are strong enough that she has been able to save money and pay down debt, though she started at a relatively mature age.
- Know how to ask for help. Recognize that asking for help is a skill we need to learn, and that it is a strength, not a weakness. Martha noted that after 9/11 was a difficult time for her emotionally as well as financially. She reached out for help, which she says is a real strength, and knowing when you need it and asking early is an even greater strength.
About the guest:
Martha Legare is a behavioral scientist - which simply means she is very curious about how people act and what motivates them. Martha formed a startup with 2 partners years before it was trendy, (they are still friends), then managed a manufacturing plant in California. For the last 20 years, she’s been consulting and coaching, leading projects and helping clients manage organization change.
Website: https://www.ganttgroup.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marthalegare/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GanttGroup
Email address: Legare@ganttgrpoup.com
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Martha Legare
I think failure is a major learning point that if you're successful at first, then you don't understand the impact of things going wrong. And that makes you less likely to be successful the second time.If you fail at first, then you know, you have to do some kind of work around, or you have to change the scope of where you're headed.
Narrator:
Welcome to making change with your money. A podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura. Rotter.
Laura Rotter
I am so excited to have as my guest today, Martha Laguerre.
Martha is a behavioral scientist, which simply means she's very curious about how people act and what motivates them. Martha formed a startup with two partners years before it was trendy, and they are still friends. Then she managed a manufacturing plant in California for the last 20 years. She's been consulting and coaching leading projects and helping clients manage organizational change. So welcome Martha to the making change with your money podcast.
Martha Legare
Thank you so much for inviting me. So excited for our conversation.
Laura Rotter
I'm going to start with the question I always start with, which is Martha, what was money like in your family growing up?
Martha Legare
Money in my family was a little weird because We originally lived with my grandfather. I'm the oldest child and my grandfather had quite a bit of money and lost it with some bad investments. So we went up and down and up and down in terms of how much money was available. And I was such a child, I didn't understand a lot of those dynamics, but now I can see how it affected things. How many siblings do you have? I have three brothers and a sister.
Laura Rotter
Oh, a big family. And what part of the country did you grow up in?
Martha Legare
I grew up in Virginia on the James River. So it was a dairy farm, actually. We grew all the things to feed the cows as well as having cows to milk. It was personally horrible for me. I mean, I loved being in the country when I got to go fishing and hang out with my dad and things like that.
But being an extrovert, there weren't a lot of people around. The nearest neighbor that I got to play with was three miles away. Wow.
Laura Rotter
It's a very unique place to grow up and I'm just curious how you then had a sense of the ups and downs. Do you need to move? Was it talked about behind closed doors and you overheard it?
Like how did you have a sense of what was going on for your grandfather?
Martha Legare
My grandfather Actually died when I was about five, but I can remember after he died and they settled the estate and I was probably maybe seven by then I heard an argument between my parents, which they did not know I was there, but I was kind of sitting on the stairwell where they couldn't see me and.
My father was trying to get mine to be more realistic about things that she purchased. And because we didn't have as much money as we thought we had had before. Andhonestly, my mother didn't know what was more important, bread or anchovy paste. So they, you know, that stuck with me and I was like, I'm going to know the difference.
And I didn't like anchovy paste that much anyway.
Laura Rotter
Right.I, I could see that that would be a conversation that would stick with you just in general when, when parents are disagreeing and overhearing that as a young child.
Martha Legare
And then it changed when I went, this is way more personal than I was intending, but I went to boarding school.
I went to a girls boarding school where we didn't really have that much money anymore, but my grandmother had set aside some money. for us so that we could go to private school. And suddenly, after having a lot of money, then not having a lot, I was back in a group of people that had a lot, lot, lot of money. I mean, I could name three major corporations that were owned by the family of girls I went to high school with.
Laura Rotter
So you, you managed to get out of the small town, the small farming area that you grew up with and did, was it important to you to never go back as you considered next steps, as you considered college?
Martha Legare
Yeah, my criteria for college was that not be in the same state as my family. I ended up going to Guilford, which is a little Quaker college in North Carolina. It turned out to be really great. It wasn't what my ideal college was because I didn't understand that I had to get actually work and get better grades.
And Guilford, as I thought of it, took people with high scores on their SAT, but not so terrific achievements. I was not an A student. At least in high school, I wasn't.
Laura Rotter
I think when we're in high school, It's not on our heads that we, unless we grow up in a very competitive area, and I really tried as a parent not to be the one that that made my kids feel that it needed to be competitive.
But, you know, you're, you're hopefully enjoying yourself in high school and not just focused and getting good grades.
Did you have a particular interest when you went to Guilford?
Martha Legare
I thought I was going to be a total psychology major, but they wouldn't let me take 301 course my freshman year, and I had an argument because I said, I've been subscribing to psychology today since I was 14.
I don't think I should have to start at 101. So I ended up with. Major in philosophy in a subcategory of psychology, because eventually they did let me take that.
Laura Rotter
Martha, what had you interested at the age of 14 so that you subscribed to psychology today?
Martha Legare
My uncle was a psychologist at Johns Hopkins, and I really liked him, and he was very Kind and generous with, um, sharing things with us. And I used to go visit my city cousins in Baltimore and see them.
Laura Rotter
So then can you talk about your journey after college?
Martha Legare
I started a business with two other people. We knew nothing about business. We were really lucky that all of us were very sensible. And I mean, I can remember. It was two men and they were like, okay, we're going to need refrigeration equipment.
Who wants to do that? And because it was a food store and I said, well, why don't you do it? Blah, blah, blah. And they said, well, I think you should do it. And I'm like, what do I know about horsepowers and compressors? And they're like, what do we know? So I said, okay, I'll be in charge of that. And I was really lucky.
I mean, I can't believe I'm telling you these silly stories, but I went around and I hounded all the restaurant supply places, because we didn't have very much money. We borrowed it all from my friends and hundred dollar amounts. So for Ted, who was a chemistry professor, he loaned me 200, but I've got a guy who called me at 6:30 one morning and said, go to this place by seven.
And I'm like, okay, why? And he said, well, because they've got all this refrigeration equipment, they're going to have to pay to have somebody take it away and you can get it for free. I'm like, okay. So we got $10,000 worth of equipment that day. We were lucky. We're very, very lucky.
Laura Rotter
Martha, now that you look back, can you sort of see the thread that had you interested in doing this given what you've talked about?
You're an extrovert. You're interested in human nature. What had you say? Okay, I'm gonnastart a food store with two guys.
Martha Legare
Well, we were going to end world hunger starting in North Carolina. That was our plan.
Laura Rotter
It was a non-profit? It was what, what was the company?
Martha Legare
It was not to start with, but eventually we made it one.
It's still there today and it's doing millions of dollars. And the other thing is that I worked really well with other people. And one of the things that tied us as business partners together, although we were quite different, was that we agreed to make major decisions by consensus. And we did that always. Not quickly always, but always we did.
Laura Rotter
And that's not an easy thing to do.
Martha Legare
No, and I mean later I became a certified mediator, so I, I do know consensus.
Laura Rotter
I'm really curious, I mean, I think you are a woman who's quite aware of your skills.
And so, by joining that partnership, and then what happened after Were you already aware that you were bringing your interest in psychology, your interest in helping people reach decisions, or it's only looking back, recognizing that you built those skills?
Martha Legare
Well, I was aware of the helping people make decisions because at one point I organized 90 other retail stores. They came and they camped out at the farm that I was living on. And I taught them all consensus decision making. And we agreed toBasically front the amount of money that each of us would order every month to get a warehouse started that was local.
So we didn't have to order everything from New York.
Laura Rotter
So you've always had the skill to organize and bring people together, which is really.
Martha Legare
I learned as I went. I mean, obviously there are things that, you know, weren't exactly. Easy or, you know, didn't turn out right to start with, but I'm pretty resilient and, you know, I can redo things.
Laura Rotter
I think that's a very important point that so many of us shy away from this concept of failure. And yet what I'm hearing when we talk about your resilience. Is that failure is actually a part, especially as an entrepreneur of growth and learning, you can't, you're not going to progress without taking risks that inevitably will result in failure at times.
Martha Legare
I think failure is a major learning point. That if you're successful at first, then you don't understand the impact of things going wrong. And that makes you less likely to be successful the second time.If you fail at first, then you know you have to do some kind of work around or you have to change the scope of where you're headed or something like that.
And I've always been pretty willing to. Be flexible. So I went after that store. I went to California on vacation and I got offered a job and I kid you not, I, I cinched the deal with. My astrology report, the guy who owned the business was the amateur astrologer. And after I'd gone through the interview, he said, well, do you have an astrology chart?
And I said, yes, and I knew I could get one of those right away. And so that was it.
Laura Rotter
But he looked at your chart to see if you were a good hire?
Martha Legare
To confirm, to confirm, you know, that he wanted to hire me.
Laura Rotter
Before I go on to understand the progression ultimately to your coaching business and how you work, Martha, you were, you say you were on, you were in California on vacation. What had you open? How did you open to then staying in California?
Martha Legare
Well, I went there because my partner who had previously lived in California wanted to go back for this period of time. I think it was like 6 weeks and I was bored and we ended up at a cocktail party and somebody at the cocktail party had said, Hey, there's going to be an opening for the general manager of our business.
I think you'd be perfect. Then I just went there.
Laura Rotter
And what I'm hearing is you're, again, in some ways, maybe I could look and say, well, you didn't feel particularly rooted. On the other hand, you're open to what came your way. And, you know, frankly, that's something I'm working on, being open to things that come, come my way, sort of kismet or karma, or in some ways that, does that resonate with you at all?
Martha Legare
Yes, and they've done a lot of research on lucky and and I consider myself very lucky, but the research shows that people who are lucky are the ones that are just open. They don't have preconceptions being as optimistic as I am and having people in my family live to be really old and functional for a long time.
I just thought I would work till the day I died because I loved the work. I was doing whatever work it was. I loved it. And I just said, I'll do this. I never lived beyond my means. But I didn't really worry about saving or thinking. And then when I hit 40, it was like,gosh, maybe I should start thinking about that.
So I had to spend a lot of makeup time. So you've seen all the charts and I'm sure all your people who are listening to this have seen the charts where if you start saving when you first get out of college, you know, or even if you're. You know, in working in college and you start your IRA when you're 18, it turns out really differently and…
Laura Rotter
The power of compounding.
Martha Legare
Yeah, I understood compounding interest. I just, it was a theory that I never applied. You know, and and that was the big mistake for me. I've been fortunate. I've been able to have good pay and work after that. And I could squirrel away a bunch of money and I've got my house paid off. And, you know, that kind of thing, but it's not if I were to look back, I would say that would be the biggest thing I would have changed start saving early.
Laura Rotter
Thanks for sharing that.
And I would have thought as you described feeling a sense of scarcity when you were younger, that that would have been top of mind.
Martha Legare
You know, it could have been, but how I interpreted that was that I will never live beyond my means. We don't really need as much stuff as consumerism and capitalism and advertising tells us we need.
Laura Rotter
I so agree with that, Martha. I think we all have an existential hole that for better or for worse, we often try to fill by buying that one more thing. And, you know, recognizing the right balance, which is different from each of us is so important. And of course, it was a big part of my life change that I went through about.
A decade ago, but what I love about you. And so I want to hear this continuation is you're, you're a risk taker.
So on the one hand, you're very pragmatic and you're, and you don't live beyond your means. And on the other hand, it sounds like you never went for a traditional corporate job, 401k healthcare.
Martha Legare
You know, I, I come from an entrepreneurial family. My grandfather had numerous businesses.He ended up with a road paving business that had made quite a lot of money, you know, but then he got sick and then wasn't active in it and his partner bought him out and then he made some bad investments. But why do I feel a need to say, like, I'm not all that perfect on my buying.
I do have one of those little spiral things where they, you can put a zucchini in it and it makes like. Spaghetti instead of, you know, so you could be all healthy, but you know, I, I buy junk too. It's not like I'm perfect. Okay. So, but I think. When, when you think about what can you do because of the isolation and because I was the oldest, I didn't have a lot of models in front of me, or as I prefer to call it, my parents, guinea pig.
I didn't know enough to be afraid. I didn't know enough to consider a really corporate job. And by the time I went to college, We were still in the Vietnam War, and there was a lot of social concern going on, and I just didn't want to be a part of some giant thing that wasn't helping humanity. So I don't know it was that I was willing to take risks so much more than other people as much as it was.
I didn't know there was another option.
Laura Rotter
I love that.
And I also think it's a reflection of who you are, you know, to put the positive spin on it. That. you believed in yourself, you knew that you had drive, you knew that you, whatever you set your mind to do, you would move forward and do it, it seems like. So Martha, please help our listeners understand how you, you know, how you decided to leave California in the manufacturing plant and ultimately start your own consulting business.
Martha Legare
Well, the guy who used the astrology chart made some bad decisions and then he got into a cash flow crunch doing something that I told him not to do, but I wasn't the decision maker on that. And he had to cut all the people.
In both this, and we were building a huge new warehouse building that was very expensive. And so he had to cut people's work back to three quarters time, including mine, all the people who work for me, and all the people that worked for his tea company, which is in every grocery store everywhere now. So, but.
That gave me an opportunity to say, what do I really want to do and that's when I went to grad school and I studied organization development. I had a friend who said, hey, I think you'd really like this area. You know, why don't you try this class? So I went and talked to the professor and 1st day of class.
You know, we were like saying, does this fit me and I told him what I've done and you know, he was great. Yeah, you should be here. The first day of class. He says in class. We're so glad we have Martha in here. She's going to bring a lot of expertise and I'm looking around trying to figure out who else is named Martha.
But it turns out I had been de facto doing a lot of that work. I had just never studied any of it. I didn't know who Maslow was. I didn't, I didn't know anything academic around it, you know, sothat was a shift for me and of course I needed work while I was going to grad school. And so I ended up doing a lot of subcontracting and I worked, ended up working for a company that did project management, and so when I first took a four day training. I'm like, this is a field. Don't you just have to do this to get stuff accomplished? Oh my gosh, there's software. You could, you don't have to do it in your head or on an Excel spreadsheet, you know, so that was a great revelation for me.
Laura Rotter
And can you just place us, you know, what year that was around what period of time?
Martha Legare
Gosh, I, that was in the. Late eighties.
Laura Rotter
Okay, so a while ago.
Martha Legare
Yeah. Yeah. It was when being a project manager was a new and novel thing and I ended up on the project management institutes. They have a a few global advisory boards, and so I was on three of those for basically a decade.
Laura Rotter
And so when did that evolve to your current incarnation of running?
Martha Legare
Well, I was doing the project management consulting and training as a sub contract person, because I was in grad school. Then I started doing some jobs on my own. So when I had a business partner for seven years and we officially started the Gantt group in 1995. And so then that was another bad financial decision I made.
I bought her out of the business, my partner, the month before 9 11. And of course, all of our work was traveling all over the world, you know, so I was doing a lot of work in Europe, and I was doing North America, and needless to say. What I bought her out for was not the equivalent of what I was expecting, you know, with the business.
But, you know, it comes and it goes. By that time I'd learned to save a little bit.
Laura Rotter
Right, and I guess I'd like to believe that when things like that happen, there's something we learn from it. I don't know if that's always true, if we can always identify it. Other than, again, your resilience.
Martha Legare
I will say what, what has saved me, Laura, in numerous occasions is I know how to ask for help.
And I find that that is a thing that many people do not know how to do. In that case, after 9/11 and I stopped making a bunch of money and my business partner turned out to be not as honest as I had thought, I got a psychologist, you know, and I went to therapy. And it was a saving grace for me. So, but asking for help is a real skill.
And the first thing is knowing that it's a strength, not a weakness. And I think too many people, both women and men, feel like, if I have to ask for help, there's something wrong with me. And it's not. Nobody can do everything. And so, asking for help is a real strength. And knowing when you need it and asking early.
is even greater strength because then you don't have to get to a horrible, horrible depressive stage.
Laura Rotter
And also, interestingly, obviously just asking for help even from friends were or colleagues. I'm, I'm wondering if you find as an extrovert, that's easier for you. It's like. It's not that intellectually I don't understand that I should ask for help, but there's some way in which it just, I don't do it. It doesn't come naturally to me. And sometimes I'm surprised by that.
So Martha, so then you started your business mid nineties, ultimately the Gantt group started. around mid 90s. And how has that evolved? Were you first working with different businesses or people than you're working with now? What was the question?
Martha Legare
It's changed a little bit over time. And part of that's the nature of business. Like at one point, I was, I started working with a company in Ohio, that was a logistics company That was owned by a British entity, but I was working with the North American division and then we designed some project management.
Well, I designed the project management methodology for them with the guy who was. head of global project management. And then, of course, we wanted to roll it out to Europe. And being in logistics, they were all over Europe. I remember going to Finland in February, and they wanted me to go to Mexico City in July.
I kept trying to get them to switch those dates, but they would not. But, you know, so that's where it started. And then that company got bought by a German company. DHL, I couldn't say their name. And at a certain point, I hate to stereotype people, but the frugal Germans decided, why are we flying her across the pond all the time?
And so I ended up, and it's a decision I would have made earlier if I had been deciding, but I did a train the trainer program for them and continue working with them. I'm still working with parts of that group. But I'm, I'm not doing the kind of really extreme work that I was doing with them before, which would be at least every month.
I was in Europe, you know, somewhere. So that was good while it lasted.
Laura Rotter
So I'm wondering, I know that you have. Frameworks and methodologies for the work that you do. The women listening to this podcast, many of them are reinventing thinking about, I want to leave corporate. I want to start my own business.
Is there a way that you can discuss your frameworks and methodologies that could help with that thought process?
Martha Legare
I think so. I think there are two things. Two models that I use, and one is a model of organization change that I developed for companies, but I've modified it for coaching, and I call it the VADES, V A D E S.
Model, which is about vision, alignment, design, execution, and sustainability.But I think on the more detailed level, the thing that might be more successful is a thing I've come up with, which is the 5 Uns of Unsuccess. And in 20 years of looking at projects. in organizations. What I've found is that you can have project managers who are very skilled, but the people who are managing the project managers don't know the right questions to ask.
And I think they're the kind of questions we can ask ourselves if we have a project. And that could be a smaller project. I'll give you an example. I have someone who's going to help me with updating my database. Because I haven't done that in way too long a time. So,when I think about it, what are the things that I need to be concerned with in doing something that's that small?
Or it could be something really huge, like, I have to redefine my life after my husband died, or after, you know, something major happened, or there's a medical issue, or whatever. And so while I think of it in the Vaidya's processes, what's your larger big vision? What's your ideal? What do you hope for the most?
And then let's scale it down to one of the things that creates the most lack of success, which is Undefined scope. If we don't know what it is exactly that we want, we're not going to get it. You know, you, you get what you measure. So, so what is the scope look like? And Undefined I would challenge people to say, make that as specific as you can.
And so you have to talk about what kind of money does that mean? And that means like, what are you spending money on now? And do you want to continue or can you continue spending the same amount? If you spend it, how long will it last? What money is coming in? And I was really lucky when I was a child and went away at 14, you know, because I had an allowance.
You know, for the month that my parents would put in my little bank account and.Fortunately, because they didn't talk about money, the back of the thing that came in the mail from the bank would tell you how to figure out how to reconcile your checkbook. What an amazing idea!You know, so I never had any problem with that.
You know, you just, I do remember wanting to save up for a fountain pen and that took more than one month's worth of saving for me. But when you think about scope, what does that mean? You know, like I might say my idea was to live in a warm place with a partner and a dog and a cat and in a nice neighborhood where I had friendly people.
Okay. Well, what town would that be in? You know, what neighborhood would that be in?Oh, when I was traveling for work, it turned out I couldn't have a dog, you know, so what's realistic for us, you know, in terms of what do we want and what do we have to do, and sometimes you have to make a choice, like this is what I want, but it's not doable now. Well, can I save so that it'll be doable later?
Laura Rotter
And I, I think we often avoid defining scope. I mean, I, I think of money and sometimes and food and weight control interchangeably. It's like, Oh, I want to lose weight this year. Okay. How much weight do you want to lose over what period of time? And you know, that we tend to avoid doing because then that implies that we're actually going to try to achieve.Right, that it's measurable and often we avoid that…
Martha Legare
Or we try and we fail and then we just give up as opposed to trying again. So I would say, so I don't have a partner anymore, but after that, I gained weight and I was like, Oh, I'm 20 pounds overweight. I'm 20, you know, and I said that for a decade. And then finally, just one day, it's like, okay, I'm done with this now I, I got to get back and I tried some diets.
I tried some exercise. I tried another diet and finally, I found one that worked for me and now I weigh 25 pounds less. So this is my normal state and, but I had to get on the scale every day. And I had to count calories only two days a week, though, because I was on that to five things.
So, but…
Laura Rotter
Though in your body, so you had the vision?
Martha Legare
Had the vision, and then you have to align it with your value system.
So your value system. Is really like, what do you believe? Maybe for some people, it's a spiritual thing. Maybe for some people, it's a humanitarian thing. Maybe for some people, it's how they're going to measure success. I need to be the vice president or senior vice president. It doesn't matter what it is, but whatever, it's got to be consistent with your value system or you're not going to follow through and maintain with that.
The other thing is unrealistic estimates. That's one of my of unsuccess. And I will tell you, I know seven different estimating techniques from having been in project management. And I'm really bad at all of them because I'm too optimistic. And I know that about myself. So I just have to take that into account.
I will never give you a reasonable estimate right off the top. It will always be too cheerful. So I think it's the unrealistic estimates and there's also the unacknowledged risk. Nobody wants to look at risk. Even I, who taught risk management for years, you know, I don't want to look at risk because what?
We think of risk as a bad thing. Now, technically, risk simply means an unknown. So it could be a good thing or a bad thing. It's just an unknown. So there's usually threat and opportunity.So that's, or threat and reward,and if you want to go into the psychological side of that, the Neuro Linguistic Institute is really brilliant, they have this, David Rock designed this scarf model, and it talks about five different ways that people need to be motivated, and there are different ways Levels, you know, not everybody's motivated in the same way and so it's like, but the human brain, what we know of neurology now is like threat is perceived twice as strong as reward is.
And so that really fits into that model of not wanting to take a risk because we are really afraid of the risk involved. And we don't have saber tooth tigers lurking by the waterhole anymore, but we still have the brain that functions on that level. So You know, when we're looking at the reptilian brain, you know, we have to say to ourselves, whatever it is, you know, what's the risk that I need to look at.
And once I do that, then I'll be really happy because then I'll know I'm on a really solid foundation.
Laura Rotter
And I'm thinking of the weight loss thing again. And it's like, I guess the risk that you'll be invited that Thanksgiving is coming up.
Martha Legare
Well, I, I would say on the weight loss one, do not choose to start it the week of Thanksgiving.
We are now, you know, so. All the work around habits and things like that is, is if you want to make a big change, you have to make it a habit and that's going to be 21 days and doing the same thing. And so if you're going to do that, you have to look at what are the things that are. Keeping you in the old pattern and what are the things that will nudge you to the right pattern and there's that book on nudging, who wrote it?
Oh,Kalman. Yeah. So what we want to do is find little things that will nudge us in the right direction. So if it's,if you want to talk about weight loss, you could say. What do I find? I have to exercise first thing in the morning or I won't do it. You know, if, if I say, Oh, I'm just going to check all my emails first and then I'm going to go for a walk or do exercise, go to the gym or whatever it is.
It doesn't happen. I have to get up, put on my sweats. Walk out the door or at least turn on the zoom thing, you know, to do exercise. So, you know, look at what are your risks in terms of doing something and not doing something. So if we were to talk about money, one of the things that I know. A lot of systems do now is like the, the credit cards will say, okay, you spent 10 and 50 cents.
Do you want that other 50 cents to go into a savings deal? Yeah. You can't paying yourself first.
Laura Rotter
Sorry to interrupt. But the idea that like some of your paycheck is going to automatically go into savings. So you won't have the unintended risks that like, Oh, there's this money sitting in my bank account. And I liked that shirt. You know.
Martha Legare
Exactly. Yep. And I think one thing you said was really critically important, which is the, oh, that's stupid to say that don't call ourselves stupid. It's the self talk that we have. So the first step in changing something is being able to listen to yourself and catch you, you know, catch myself.
If I say something that's negative. And if I do something that is kind of stupid, and I say to myself, Oh my God, that was so stupid. At least I'm saying that was stupid. The behavior was stupid. I as a person am not stupid. You know, most of the people I work with are very smart people. And it's not that they can't do it themselves.
It's that they don't have the time or they don't take the time to do it themselves. And some people. Maybe like me as an extrovert, I do my thinking out loud. I know that terrifies introverts, which are like, it's not a decision just because I said it out loud. It's just a thought, you know, and I like to get other people's input.
And so I make better decisions when I can talk to somebody, if they're more knowledgeable about the subject than I am, or. Sometimes if they say no, that's, that's a good bouncing back thing and it'll make me like, well, yes, I do want to do that, you know, or no, maybe I should think about that some more. So we're all in the opportunity for improving ourselves in some ways.
I mean, I'm a coach and I have a coach, you know, because I can always learn, you know, I've, I've got a little group of coaches that I work with and we all help each other, you know, in terms of working on things, but most of the people have.We all have strengths, and we all have weaknesses, and while we want to concentrate on the strengths, we need to acknowledge the weaknesses.
I'm all for the strengths thing. I think that's great. But if you pretend like you're only on strengths, and you don't know what your weaknesses are, then that's a weakness right there. So that's an unacknowledged risk. Let's look, let's look at everything. Be wide open. You find a lot more four leaf clovers being wide open than you do if, if you're narrowing your perspective or as the Brits would call it, a blinkered approach, you know, where those horses have those little blinders on the sides.
So let's look at everything. Information never hurts as long as it's accurate. You know, if people are saying this is information and it's not true, then that could hurt, but information never hurts and you can always decide what you want to do with it.
Laura Rotter
I love that. And it strikes me, Martha, you are a woman who continues to learn about yourself, about others.And I'm wondering, as we get to the end of our conversation, how your definition of success has shifted. Over this multi-year career.
Martha Legare
Um, I would say my sense of success has some of the same criteria, which are that I'm doing good work in the world. I'm a little more realistic now. I'm not gonna end world hunger, but.
But I'm helping other people get more clear on what they want, or I'm helping businesses work more effectively as well as efficiently. I'm helping sell disk assessments and other assessments to learning and development organizations and, or departments. And that's really helping the people that they give them to learn more about themselves and other people.
So, I think that making the world better in some way, shape or form is 1 of my criteria for success. And the other 1 is having fun, you know. I love work that I do. I love the people I work with. If I don't love them, I don't continue to work with them. Yeah. I mean, gracefully, not, not in a bad way, but you know, that's okay.
If I did a contract, well, that's not going to be the contract I'm going to do again. You know, that Was not pleasant for me. If it's not pleasant for me, it's probably not pleasant for them. And there's probably a better fit for somebody else or their values might align better, you know, I mean, I'm never going to be 1 of those people who's good with, like, helping people with layoffs.
That's, you know, I don't do that work, you know, I, I can't, it's not in my nature, you know, as long as my life is fine, you know, living the way I live, it almost sounds like it hasn't shifted for you, Martha, that you're always, it hasn't shifted the, the content has shifted radically. You know, from dealing with food to manufacturing baby products, that's what we made in our company, to organizations and projects.
The things have shifted, but I would say a lot of the process even has not. I mean, sure, hopefully I learn new tools and techniques all the time. There's always software coming out, like left and right. There's always better ways to do things, but, but the basic idea ofdefine it, break it down, you know, figure out what the work is, estimate how long it's going to take, who's going to do it, maybe who's going to do it affects the estimates of how long it's going to take, you know, and then fit it into some kind of a timeframe, a Gantt chart, like my company named Gantt,or What could go wrong?
Can we do something preventive before it goes wrong? Um, so that it doesn't go wrong and then just track and manage and roll with the changes. And I think that's basic project management that works for everything, whether it's your love life, or whether it's your financial life, or whether it's your job job,you know, I think defining things clearly is the most critical piece.
And that's where you start, and that's where the most problems happen if you don't do it well.
Laura Rotter
Thank you. And you really strike me as someone who's quite gifted in sort of taking a big picture and breaking it down into the necessary pieces.
Martha Legare
I have developed that skill, but that's a skill that everybody can develop, to be honest. You know, you can, there are exercises to how to open up your brain so that you're not just like having a more narrow focus. There are times that narrow focus is really good. So you might do this like divergent convergent approach to things. But yeah, big picture to start with. And then smaller pieces, and the smaller you make them, the easier they'll be to manage.
Laura Rotter
Thank you. So, Martha, if someone is listening to this and would like to get in touch with you to help plot their next steps, what's the best way?
Martha Legare
I would say you could call me, but there seems to be a rash of spam on my phone. The last few days, so I would say you could send me an email with my last name, which is legare @ E. G. A. R. E. at Gantt group G. A. N. T. T. group dot com or look up our. Our website, and you can get in touch with me there.
Laura Rotter
Great. Is there any last thing you'd like to say before we go?
Martha Legare
I will say, I think 1 of the things I am particularly good at a strategy and what I find is that a lot of people either need help thinking about that.
Whether it's on a personal scale or a business scale, you can't just jump from one thing to another. You have to think about the options and then decide. So, if you know any people who need coaching around strategy. I'm your girl.
Laura Rotter
Thank you so much, Martha. This has been a fun conversation.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Martha Laguerre, Executive Leadership Coach and Managing Director of Gantt Group. Some of the things I'm taking away from our conversation. Know that failure is a major learning point. As Martha noted, when you're an entrepreneur. You're not going to progress without taking risks that can result in failure.
If you're successful right away, then you're not going to understand the impact of things going wrong. If on the other hand, you fail at first, then you know you have to do some kind of work around, or you have to change the scope of where you're headed. My second takeaway, people who are lucky are the ones who are just open who don't have preconceptions.
Martha shared how she was in California on vacation and while at a cocktail party, she learned about a position that was open for general manager, which led to her next role. She considers herself a lucky person and attributes that to being open as well as being skilled in pattern recognition. My third takeaway, start saving early.
Looking back,the biggest thing that Martha would change is to start saving early. Although she grew up with scarcity. She didn't really think about saving until she hit the age of 40. She's been fortunate that her earnings are strong enough that she has been able to save money and pay down debt, although she started saving at a relatively mature age.
And my final takeaway, know how to ask for help. Recognize. That asking for help is a skill we need to learn and that is a strength. It is a strength, not a weakness. Martha noted that after 9 11, it was a difficult time for her emotionally as well as financially. She reached out for help, which she says is a real strength.
And knowing when you need it and asking early is an even greater strength. Are you enjoying this podcast? Please don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss next week's episode. And if you love the show, a rating and a review would be greatly appreciated and would help other women just like you to find it.
Thank you so much.
Narrator
Thanks for listening to making change with your money. Certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors.com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.