A conversation with Tammy Cho, author and Chief Energy Leadership Officer as she shares her expert story and insights on breaking through limitations and achieving peak performance.
Are you a woman in midlife feeling stuck on a plateau, yearning for true abundance and happiness? Join us for a powerful conversation with international bestselling author and Chief Energy Leadership Officer, Tammy Cho, as she shares her expert story and insights on breaking through limitations and achieving peak performance. Listen in as Tammy reveals her personal journey from childhood poverty and people-pleasing to finding her true purpose.
Tammy opens up about the challenges of growing up with a single dad and the impact of early money stories on her self-worth. She candidly discusses her 20-year career as a nurse, the burnout that led to a health crisis, and the profound awakening that transformed her life. This episode is a must-listen for women seeking to overcome self-sabotage, embrace their authentic selves, and create lives of abundance and joy.
Discover how Tammy's unique approach to energy leadership, combined with face and body analysis, helps clients connect with their inner wisdom and unlock their full potential. She shares practical strategies for cultivating self-love, trusting your intuition, and stepping into your power. This episode is packed with valuable advice and inspiring anecdotes for women ready to break free from limiting beliefs and create lives they truly love.
Key Takeaways:
💡 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs: Learn how to identify and release the negative beliefs that are holding you back from achieving your full potential.
💡 The Power of Self-Love: Discover how cultivating self-love and acceptance can transform your relationship with yourself and others.
💡 Energy Leadership: Explore Tammy's unique approach to energy leadership and how it can help you achieve peak performance.
💡 Face and Body Analysis: Learn how face and body analysis can provide insights into your emotional history and unlock your authentic self.
Connect with Tammy:
Free resource: Face Analysis Series
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Subscribe to my YouTube channel
Get your free copy of Unlock Your Money Blocks Workbook: Your step-by-step guide to unlocking your blocks to financial freedom.
Disclaimer: Please remember that the information shared on this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment or financial advice. It’s for informational purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.
 Narrator
Welcome to Making Change With Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rodder.Â
Laura Rotter
So I am so excited to have as my guest today, Tammy Cho.
Tammy is an international bestselling author, chief energy Leadership Officer, face and Body analysis expert. And host of the Authentic Leaders Rising Podcast, Tammy empowers established entrepreneurs and leaders to break through plateaus so they can achieve peak performance, authentic wealth, and happiness.
Tammy has been featured on Positive Impact tv, brains Magazine, and major channels like Fox, C-B-S-N-B-C, and AP News. So welcome Tammy to the Making Change With Your Money podcast.Â
Tammy Cho
Thanks for having me, Laura. I'm so happy to be here.
Laura Rotter
I'm looking forward to our conversation and I will start, as I always do with the question, what was money like in your family growing up?
Tammy Cho
Wow, that's a mouthful.
You know, honestly, Laura, like growing up, um, we were really poor. Um, I, you know, really just got clothes for Christmas, um, and it's very rare that I would actually get. Toys. Um, and I remember the first time getting a toy actually for the first time by a neighbor. 'cause they saw that my dad was a single dad at that time.
And, um, yeah. And he made us give it back because you can't accept gifts.Â
Laura Rotter
And so there was a lot, you could, you know, a lot of programming right there right away, right?Â
Tammy Cho
Yes. And, um, yeah, it's, it's just like, there was, there was, there seemed to be enough. We never talked about money per se. Um. And, you know, I, I heard him say that, you know, I don't, I don't really know what my budget is.
It's just that as long as we have just enough. So there was very much that programming. Um, and I still remember, Laura, I'm just spilling my heart and guts to you and, uh, yeah, like I, I remember like. Being in elementary and asking my dad for money for a field trip and I would be sweating 'cause I'm like, oh my goodness, will he, will he give it to me?
Like, I just remember feeling so much fear around if I do, I deserve this. So yeah, there's a lot of money story there, um, growing up, um, that I had to, you know, break through, overcome, um. I really learned to loving myself that I do deserve money and I deserve more than enough all these pieces, you know? Um, so, so yeah.
Like those are the top three stories that you're asking me. This, and it's, it's interesting what comes up when people ask you questions like this.Â
Laura Rotter
Yes. And it's interesting, you were raised by a single dad that was just a, a period of your life, or most of your childhood.Â
Tammy Cho
Um, you know what, it was a good chunk of my childhood.
Um, my, um, mom had left when I was a baby, and so, uh, very early on I just had a dad, but then later my grandma came from China and so that allowed me to have, um, sort of a caregiver, which, you know, she fell in love with me and we were really close. And so there are gifts in that for sure. Yes. Um, yeah. And so, yeah, it, it, but it's like, there was like definitely periods of in and out.
'cause then my grandma had to work, you know, and all these kind of things. And so, so yeah, that's what sort of started for me in this way. It wasn't the, i, I wouldn't say the, the best start. Um, however, I feel like a lot of ways growing up,Â
like these things make us who we are today. Exactly, and I'm sure this will be part of the conversation, the reframing of what sounds like a true difficulty in your early life, Tammy, as what did this come to teach me and what did this, how did this help in my evolution?
Laura Rotter
Um, did you have siblings or was it, um, you and your dad. And you and your grandma?Â
Tammy Cho
Well, Laura, since you ask, I actually, I have six sisters. Um, my dad was trying for a boy. Oh God. Yeah. So I had a big family growing up, Laura. Um, yeah. And I was, um, you know, um, really I was the youngest from my mom and, and then the other half was from my, um, stepmom.
So total of us there was six. And could you imagine the bathrooms. Sharing experience.Â
Laura RotterÂ
It's so funny, I was talking about this with a friend yesterday. Yeah.Â
Laura Rotter
Oh yeah. It was, it's funny. Just imagine one bathroom.Â
Laura Rotter
Yes. I grew up with one bathroom, but we were a family of four, so. Yeah.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah.Â
So it's just craziness, it's just amazing.
Just feel like I'm going back into like childhood lane right now.Â
Laura Rotter
Yes. And because of the fact that you felt that money was scarce, how did this impact you, um, into your teenage years? Like, did you always have jobs? Um, what was the impact? Oh, you know, like, um. What was the impact?
Tammy Cho
Yeah, like, I mean, it felt normal at the time 'cause I didn't know any different, um, I, you know, my first job was at McDonald's, um, almost became like, you know, a manager there, but I decided to go into nursing instead.
Laura Rotter
Good choice.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, it was really fun and great training, like they say and all these things, right? And so I spent a lot of my time there 'cause it was, it just allowed for a flexible schedule. And so, um, I. I wouldn't say I worked a whole bunch of different jobs. I did some seasonal work at the Playland Fair, um, things like that.
But I would say McDonald's was the consistent one until I got my nursing degree at that point.Â
Laura Rotter
And so I'm gonna pivot just a tiny bit, Tammy. What, what drew you to nursing? I mean, that's. That's a very specific choice, right? People, I often hear people say, oh, psychology, but nursing is a real interest in the sciences and helping people.
So how did that come about?Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Um, you know, when I, you know, I mentioned about my grandma taking care of me and as she aged, you know, I sort of became her care caretaker in many ways. Even though I was a kid, I was, I just naturally had this ability to, I. You know, determine what people need and just care and take care of things.
And I suspect that's where it came from, because honestly, I didn't know who I was back then. Right. I mean, a lot of people come out and we don't. Right. But, um, I, I literally went through this list 'cause, you know, our counselor at the time gave us this list of jobs and I ran a finger and I was like, you know, this is the one that's jumping out at me like, you know, social work or nursing.
And nursing is the one that Yeah, I, yeah, I think I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna take courses that align to going into nursing, and so like, honestly, it wasn't something that I was like, oh, I know what I wanted to do. You know? I wouldn't say that it was like, I, I, I, now I look back, I know it was like I was intuitively guided, but I didn't have a word for it.
Back then. And so it was this literally looking through a list and seeing, oh, you know, well what, what do I, what do I feel like I could do? Well? Well, I care for my grandma. You're really good at that Tabby. You know, like, and so yeah, it's like, that's like honestly how that happened for me.Â
Laura Rotter
Yeah. Don't you love when you look back and you can see how the progression of your life, if you will, makes sense. But at the time it's like, okay, sounds good. I'll do that. And. How were you able to pay for your nursing degree?Â
Tammy Cho
Well, my, my dad did pay for it and then halfway through, you know, um, my dad's like, well, if you're gonna talk to your mother, you get your mother to pay for the other half.
So my, my mom paid for the other half, so I was very lucky in that way. Uh, 'cause by that time, um, my dad had savings and all these things, right? It wasn't like early on when we first, you know, were growing up and so I'm really. You know, proud to have that in many ways. 'cause not many, not everyone does, right?
Laura Rotter
No. As I'm reading about student loan forgiveness and what's gonna happen, et cetera, right? There's a lot of people who are really struggling with student loans, so it always is a gift and, and it's wonderful to hear your gratitude that you were able to, um, graduate from nursing school, uh, without. Without student loans.
So now, now, um, our listeners are always interested in, in how we progress, um, through transitions in our lives. So, um, I know you not to be working as a nurse now, so what to…
Tammy Cho
Yeah, yeah. You know, um, you know, growing up, up through all of these things, you know, like I. You know, I, through all of it, because I mentioned it, I um, I mentioned this a little bit earlier around not really knowing who I was.
And there's this part that I realized I became that people pleaser, you know? And I became a high achiever. 'cause that's how I got attention, love, and attention. That's all I cared about back then. Right? And I, I really lost myself through the journey. Yes. I became a nurse and all of these things and I was really good at it.
Um, I moved from working at the bedside all the way to overseeing the biggest hospital here in, uh, Vancouver. Um, just wow, you know, moving people outta emergency in. Record timed so that into the appropriate bed and all these kind of things. And it's like on that whole journey, you know, and I, I realized I symptoms, how it came out for me was that I was like burning out.
Um, leading up to that I also struggled with depression and, and having 24 7 anxiety. I remember waking up in the middle of the night and just having like, what felt like a panic attack. And this is very regularly. Um, and, you know, yeah. On this journey, I, I, I, you know, I really didn't, you know, slow down until the universe got me to slow down.
And, um, it was one day when I was in nursing and I was just off the phone with a client at the time, you know, serving and everything, coaching, health coaching and things like this. And there was nothing wrong with that conversation or anything. But after I hung up, I started having, uh, heart palpitations and chest pain that radiated up my jaw down my left arm, like a classic heart attack symptom, right?
And I could, you know, taste as metallic. Fear my mouth 'cause I'm, oh my goodness, I can't breathe. Right? And I had a hard time struggling to breathe and I was like, oh my goodness, I am not doing well. And thank goodness I'm surrounded by nurses.Â
Laura Rotter
So this, and I was like, while you were on the job?Â
Tammy Cho
Yes. Yeah. And, and literally Laura, I was like wheeled off to emergency in front of everyone at work, so there was no turning back.
'cause leading up to that point, Laura, I knew I wasn't doing well. But I, I literally, I didn't know how to put myself first. I knew intellectually what I had to do. I even got a doctor's note, um, that says, time off. And I was like, oh, I just need to finish this last thing. I promised to this person and I just need to finish this too.
You know, this doctor. I promised him and yeah. And I, I just couldn't let go. And it was like, you know, now I look back, I know it's my, it was my level of worthiness. Um, and. I knew that I, I, I couldn't actually do it for myself. So the universe did it for me. And, uh, the, the way it happened for me, I was, throughout the whole process, I was so well taken care of.
And from that, right, like, I, I slowed me down, but I, I didn't actually, you know, awaken, so to speak. I. Yeah, you, I, I think you could resonate with that word, Laura, but like, um, um, it slowed me a, a slowed me down enough to, um, see where things are at. And it wasn't until I had my six month old daughter and she was lying there, one of those baby Einstein mats, um, with a hanging toys.
They're so cute. Right. And she did something really cute and intentionally she whacked something for the first time and, um. Thank goodness there was this community nurse sitting next to me. 'cause I wouldn't have realized how disconnected I was to my own child. Like, I just like, oh, kids do that. Like, I just didn't feel anything.
And I realized, you know, if. At that moment with the help of this nurse that I was like, really disconnected to my own emotions. I wasn't letting anything in. Um, obviously that started my journey, right, to really obviously doing the, the counseling and therapy and all these things, right? But I became that personal development junkie and I tried to like better myself.
Like, I'm not gonna turn into my mom. That like left me when I was 20 days old. You know, I wasn't like physically abandoning my daughter, but I was emotionally abandoning her. And, you know, that's the same, like people stay in marriages, they're emotionally disconnected, whatever that looks like. Right. And, and so, yeah, and this, this propelled me to really trying to master the mind.
I did NLP at that time. I, I, I did ran some masterminds. Uh, we did real estate investing and I became a millionaire at that time.Â
Laura Rotter
Can I just stop you for a moment?Â
Tammy Cho
Sure, sure. Yeah.Â
Laura Rotter
Sense of a timeline. So you graduated from school as a nurse and you just described, um, what that evolution was, but how long did you work as a nurse before this panic attack or episode happened?
Was that a decade, two years? You know how Oh yeah, sure.Â
Tammy Cho
It, it probably was around,Â
um. Maybe 7, 6, 7 years ago. Okay. Six, seven years ago. And so how long again, and from the time you became a nurse, how long was that career not to age you? 20 years. 20 years. I was a nurse for 20 years. A long time as a nurse.
And this was, yes. So then. Perhaps like 15 years into the career that you had this epiphany that you were burning out. Um, or long, yeah.Â
And I'm so horrible with timelines, but yes, it was definitely around that range of like the 15 year mark or something like that. Um, that I had that, yes.Â
Laura Rotter
Thank you. And did you become a mom while you were still working as a nurse?'cause I also don't have a sense of where that was. You did.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Yep.Â
I, I, I became, yeah, I be, before I left nursing, I had my first baby. Yeah.Â
Laura Rotter
Okay. And you were working full time or did you have the, the privilege, if you will, of, you know, having two incomes with someone else and, and stepping back a bit? Um, I.
Just trying to get us. Well, I had, um, I was full-time and then when I had my baby sometime after that, I did go part-time. You did?Â
Laura Rotter
Okay. Yes. How did you, I I'm just always interested in the financial implications. How do you make, make, how did you make that financial decision to be able to cut back to part-time?
Tammy Cho
Um, well, honestly, I hurt my back. And like again, you know, it wasn't me doing it for myself, the universe.Â
Laura Rotter
Yes. That's what it sounds like. You always need something or in the past anyway, needed something to, to push you towards a decision.Â
Tammy Cho
Yes, yes. And you know that. You know, created a lot in my life as well.
Right. Just that awareness and, um, at the same time, you know, I could see it like that, or I could see it like the universe has, has really pushed me towards what I'm doing now, which is a huge, um, huge deal. It was my purpose. And, um, and yeah. And so that, because I had LTD at that time, right? And so I went parttime, uh, yeah.
Laura Rotter
You went part time. Okay.Â
Tammy Cho
Yes, yes.Â
Laura Rotter
So. Right. Before we move on, you had you hurt your back, you were on long-term disability. Was that still before this panic attack that you described?Â
Tammy Cho
Yes.Â
Laura Rotter
So you were a mom already when you had that panic attack?Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah.Â
Laura Rotter
Wow. Yeah, so a lot going on.Â
Tammy Cho
Yes, a lot going on. So you step back and now you're in the middle of describing how you step back because of physical ailments.
Laura Rotter
Um, but we're recognizing also that you were cut off from yourself emotionally and then I interrupted you. So please continue.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for clarifying. 'cause you know, sometimes we're in it and we're not, you know, maybe laying it out the best way possible. Yeah. And, and I, I, at that point, essentially, um, going on my journey of, you know, making the financial, um, boost in our, our real estate portfolio.
And I, I sat there and I, I remember having this epiphany, why do I not feel any more happy? Like, um, you know, and that really redefined how I saw money, um, and what that meant for me. Um, and I continued on my journey of, you know, really trying to look for, you know, relief from the symptoms I was experiencing.
And it was like I went into, um, a lot of different energy healing type things and that served me quite a bit. Um, but when I stopped doing it, it still, all the underlying things still came back. And so I started going deeper and um, went to four years of emotional spiritual healing and went into something.
Um, that's called psychosomatic therapy. That is a study of the body, mind, heart, soul, all together. And it really helped me to see like on my, like it's how it's expressed on our physical body and our facial features and all these things. It really brought me face-to-face with what was happening and I was addressing myself in separate parts and it really didn't matter what I did.
It was, came back to my level of worthiness at that time.Â
Laura Rotter
I'm just curious what drew you to what I'm gonna just generally describe as more esoteric healing. Okay. Like you clearly had an openness to it, and I'm curious whether that was something you saw from your grandmother or perhaps you were part of a faith-based community.
Like what even opened you up to explore these kind of, um, healing modalities.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Uh, Laura, you asked such great questions. Just, I'm just saying, um, honestly, Laura, I was like very in my head, so I wasn't very open to any of this stuff. I mean, my grandma was religious, but I wasn't something, it wasn't something I took on per se.
I just kind of went with her. Um, but what happened was that I actually went to Mexico to have dental surgery, and when I went there, I, I lay there. I, I was in the room waiting for the surgeon to come in. I had a cavitation to fix and I had a panic attack right in that moment, and I was like, freaking out.
Oh my goodness, I can't believe this is happening now. And on the way to Mexico, I was reading a book around, well, asking if you just ask for help, ask the angels for help. At that time, what came through to me was the, the book and about the angels and. In that moment, I also desperate, I said that, you know, if you guys are really real, like, help me calm down right now.
And literally, Laura, within 30 seconds, um, my whole body was the calmest it's ever been, and it was powerful and I didn't have too much moments to like embody that shock because the surgeon literally came in like seconds after that. And so I went through with all of that fine, right? And, and when it was done, I, I walked out with my IV pole and I was like, oh my goodness.
Okay, okay. If you guys are actually real, like gimme another, gimme another sign, like a strong sign. And I felt this wave like shake through my body and I literally just started bawling and I realized, oh my God, I'm not alone because I, I thought I was alone. I, I honestly, with everything I was going through a part of me, you know, I had put myself behind bars to myself in many ways and to other people.
Um, you know, I put on a strong front in many ways, but I, I thought I was alone and this experience really opened up my soul. And there's, there's more out there and, you know, there was someone helping me.Â
Laura Rotter
Wow, that's beautiful.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah.Â
Laura Rotter
And I can hear, like, look at your face and hear in the tone of your voice how powerful it really was for you.
Tammy Cho
Yeah. It was Laura.
Laura Rotter
So again, I, I interrupted you as you were discussing several of the modalities that, that started, that you were exploring to help yourself.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Um. Well, at the end of the day, it's like I, I did all these modalities, but it really wasn't about the modality because when I stopped doing the energy healing tools, it was still like all the, what felt like depression and just anxiety, generalized anxiety was still there.
I was still chronically burning out, you know? Um, and I, I realized, you know, mindset wasn't doing it. And, um, it wasn't until I really came back to my body, um. And shifted my level of worthiness where that started changing everything in my life. Um, and I actually since, you know, sending in my bio, I, I actually shifted it to, I'm, I'm speaking and standing in it, that I'm helping people really raise their worth, their level of worthiness.
You know, this is a place where, um, it's a, there's a set level that is, is really hidden when people hit a plateau. There's this place within self that, you know, you could do everything, but you still feel like something's missing. Yes. You know, you do all the right strategies, mindset, you know, it's, it's, it's not at that level and, you know, that's why I do what I do.
You know, and you, you ask about this connection with, you know, God's source, however, you know, it lands for you. Um, but it was like, I remember being in a healing retreat and I got this big download that you're meant to do this. I had to find my way in business like everyone else, right? And, um, yeah, but it was like, it was really clear that I'm meant to do this, and it's just finding the words that will land and, and support the people I'm meant to.
Laura Rotter
So I'd love to unpack this a little bit more. I, I do think worthiness is. Is very hard for, I'm gonna speak for women. Um, I think culturally it's hard for actually everybody because. We are given the message by our consumer society, by our driven society, that if you're not busy, if you don't drive the BMW, if you, you know, fill in the blank, you're not worthy.
Again, as you are saying, Tammy, always looking for outside confirmation and outside affirmation from ultimately a sense of worthiness that has to come from within. So, mm-hmm. You could speak in more detail and unpack how you started to discover that for yourself and how you work with others around that.
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I love to because um, you know, this is why I talk about energy leadership as well, because if we think about it, energy, you know, you could identify as God, energy is our body vibrating atoms under our microscope. It could also be like our emotions, because emotions in motion is energy actually.
And so being able to lead ourselves in this way and. To learn how to be with ourselves and our body and our emotions is super important because worthiness is something, is a state of being that we feel, um, it's not something we could, you know, do and feel better about ourselves per se. Um, and the where we get confused is the difference between, um, confidence, you know, actually bettering a skill to feel good at that skill.
Very, very different from feeling worthy that I don't need to do anything else. I'm worthy as I am right now. Yes. And this is, you know, I, I work with people that have plateaus. They're on the revenue rollercoaster to people that have established businesses, but they still, they have everything but they feel empty.
Right. And there's this place that they put their worthiness outside of themselves, and we all heard of inner work. But there's a difference between coming back to self, trying to fix ourselves, coming from that energy versus like learning to actually get to know ourselves and to how to hold ourselves and to create safety in our bodies and to learn how to like, speak to through the shadows and recognizing these are aspects of ourselves.
It's not the truth of who we are, it's, it's who we used to be. To navigate ourselves in this way where we could hold immense compassion, self-love, and acceptance for ourselves, that starts to affect every area of our life. It doesn't just affect one area. You know, this is the beauty of this type of work.
Um, because. Many of us are very confident on the outside. It's not that we're not confident, it's not that we have a low IQ or anything like that, right? Like it's just that there's a aspect of ourselves that we were taught in our society, you know, that you know, our emotions matter. Like this whole vulnerability is weak business that we hear about, and it's like when we put it into practice and we understand.
Yeah, yeah. Like when that person was vulnerable, like I really connected to that person. And, and this is the thing, it's like being able to learn how to hold ourselves in this way and to be in our bodies. 'cause the only reason we're overthinking, doubting ourself, going into spirals, um, perfectionism, whatever, all those things that, you know, we, you know, struggle with and we make, uh, a normal part of life, it happens because we're in our heads and out of our bodies when we're in our body and we feel safe.
Boundary within our body, our intuition is clear. We know exactly the next step. We feel that self-trust, like not relying on coaches or mentors or leaders or experts outside of ourselves to tell us what to do. I mean, yes, we learn from them, but we're always coming back to self. And so this is like the ultimate, you know, energy leadership.
It's our authentic energy leadership, and if we allow ourselves to just be ourselves. And like to just live according to what matters to us. You know, our values, our vision, our purpose, our impact. Like a lot of people think that impact is out there. And yes, of course there is the tangible impact of helping people, but what if just being yourself and allowing yourself to be happy and bund in the moment without having to do anything.
We're not seeing the energetic benefits of that to the world.
Laura Rotter
Right.
Tammy Cho
And people try to do that without having this. That's why people are burning out. 'cause they have such a big heart to care, to make this big difference out there, and they're forgetting themselves and the need to make a big difference.
Laura Rotter
As I'm hearing you say, Tammy is the need again to be worthy. Right? Like that. Um, I, I'm, I'm quoting. Someone else, I didn't come up with this, but the idea that we all believe that there's some purpose that we're supposed to be fulfilling and they're not. That there's anything wrong to have a sense of purpose, but we're here to be ourselves and not always to self-actualize.
And as a follow on to what you said, of course. To acknowledge, you know, our abundance and our worth, and that we also have emotions that. Are you, you know that intellectual mind is telling us, I shouldn't be feeling this way. I shouldn't be unhappy, I shouldn't be. It's like it's gonna pass. It all passes, it all rises up and goes away and beneath it, there is that stability that it, there is that core center.
If you're just quiet enough and get in touch with it, and don't blame yourself for. Being human and have, having good feelings and bad feelings. So, um, so what were the practices that you started to do that started to help you hear that inner voice?Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah, and, and I, I believe the first thing is allowing yourself to actually slow down.
I think that is the first layer, um, because, and very hard to do so. How did you do? Yeah. Exactly. And it's like, because I do, I do have clients that, um, are able to slow down and then when they slow down, you know, they're kind of not, they're, it is like the, it's, it's really the energy behind it is the presence.
It's like, we know when I'm sitting next to you and I'm here, I'm slowed down talking to you, but am I present to you? Right? Like we could feel the difference between someone being present with us. Not, and so does our inner being. And so, yeah. And so this is a layer. It's, it's practicing that. Um, and there's all these layers that the reason we don't wanna be, um, slowing down and present 'cause we don't wanna feel, it's like, oh my goodness, like what will I feel if I slow down?
'cause they, you know, we innately, intuitively know there's stuff there.Â
Laura Rotter
Yeah, no,Â
Tammy Cho
I know. I gotta deal with that. Yeah, I know. I just gotta take some time away. We do self care, you know, taking care of our body and of course that moves energy and, and so I believe this is why the plateau comes, comes to be because we're doing all the things to try to help ourself, but the energy behind it is that we're trying to like fix ourselves so that we could keep on going.
It's not actually self love. It's not actually coming back to worthiness. Right. You know, and this is why that plateau comes about because, you know, part of our soul, it's like, I actually, I label it as spiritual depression because our soul is sad.Â
Laura Rotter
And what exactly do you mean by plateau? Because again, that, uh, I'm hearing, and I know you didn't mean it this way, the sort of judgment that.
There's a plateau and we should move beyond it. So are you me meaning an emotional plateau? How are you defining plateau?Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Yeah. And oftentimes that plateau, um, is I. Very much like kind of what I experienced. I, I recently did an episode on my podcast called and, um, uh, uh, talking about the anatomy of the plateau where we, um, start to do the thing, we're all excited and things like that.
And then we, um, start to disconnect from self and then we go through all the motions of trying to do the thing. And then we hit a plateau where things don't seem to be working. We keep, uh, yeah, it seems like we're moving forward two steps, but we're also moving back four steps.Â
Laura Rotter
So the thing, developing a business or starting a meditation practice or…
Tammy Cho
Yeah.
Well it could be anything actually could filter out to anything. But, um, in the context as of, you know, the people I support often are in business. Okay. And so I often am speaking to that. Um, so thanks for clarifying once again. Um, yeah. And there's this place where people hit, uh, burnout. Okay. And then they, um, they slow down, um, and they know what they gotta do to take care of themselves, and then they feel better, only enough to keep on going or because their soul, I don't wanna push that hard anymore.
There there's a fear of becoming the same thing. And so we self-sabotage. And so we attract different faces, different experiences, you know, different, um, people in our life with different faces, but the energy underneath it is the same.Â
Laura Rotter
Yeah.Â
Tammy Cho
And so it, it, it feels like a plateau if we're, we're slowing down enough to realize it. Right. But my sense is that the people I work with, they're, they, they, they, they're very impact and purpose driven. They, they care. We have big hearts, you know, and I tend to attract that type of person. When you care so much and you don't, you're not making, you know, living your purpose, so to speak, that disconnect becomes really large because you care.
And this is how God talks to us. How source talks to us. Right. This is why, you know you sprain your ankle. This is why you know you have a car accident or like, you know, hurt your back like myself, right? Where you have these moments, right, where you're disconnected to your own child. I. And that, that's how it shows up actually for a lot of my clients, is that they, they, they're not connecting to their family.
Like the very thing we say matters why we're working so hard. They realize they go back to family and they're like, wow, like something's missing. Like I, I, I need more intimacy in my life. I need more connection. I mean, they're, they're not necessarily connecting what that means right away, but when I bring them into presence, this all becomes unraveled.
I. And I hope that when people listen to this podcast that it, it just really speaks and awakens people wherever they're at. Um, because, you know, this is important. You are important.Â
Laura Rotter
Uh, I, I. Very much believe in everything you're saying, Tammy. I do similar exercises with my clients from having them define their values and then look at how they're actually spending their scarce resources of time and money.
And though there's never a direct connection, I. It's an important exercise to consider and um, I do also ask clients when I'm getting to know them to sort of, to rate different areas of their lives. I mean, it's not unique and have Wheel of Life exercise and I. Often there's, what comes up a lot is, is what you're saying, a sense of lack of community, lack of connection, lack of inner growth, because they've chosen, as our society, encourages us to do, to be pushing hard on their careers.
And that, um, really takes away from the ability to, as you said, to be present for others. Um, I love how you said. When you work with clients, you help build, um, um, I didn't write down exactly how you said it, but help build presence. How do you go about doing that? And I don't know if that's tied to face and body analysis, but I, that to me sounds very, like, I'd love to explore what exactly that is as well.
Tammy Cho
Yeah, sure. Thanks for asking. Um, like. Like to speak to, this is really important part of knowing thyself. Um, because, um, I'll bring in human design just quickly in that, like, this is essentially where I spend 70% of my energy is I'm helping people. This is my gift set to support, to hold space, to deepen connection and intimacy.
And I do that through caring and, uh, for the face analysis side of things. Um, this is the piece where I support someone to actually see themselves. My whole intention is to help someone shift h, transform the relationship with how they are being in their inner world, which is the left side of the face versus what they're, how they're showing up to the outside world, the right side of our face.
And of course, we look at our face and it's usually fairly symmetrical. We're not looking in this way. Right? But there's a, there's a part where I, I, I show them what this all means. Know where maybe different sizes of, um, eyes or like the shape of their nose relative to the inner and outer, you know, how the hairline is structured.
Like all this speaks to our inner world, our emotional history, and who, why we've become the person we are to really honor that first of all, right? This is not about, you know, breaking down someone, but it's really helping them see strengths, but also the challenges. Where are we conflicted that we are not honoring?
It, it drops us deeper into our authent authenticity, um, because I know that word is thrown around a lot, um, and it's very different from seeing it and experiencing it. Um, and, and often I, I don't really like to do, just do face readings per se. I, I like to do the whole experience because I don't want.
People to say, oh, this means this. And they, it's at a head level. Like to me, it matters that I'm, I'm helping someone actually feel themselves and to recognize, like, to honor themselves and to love themselves, um, and to change how they see this part that maybe they have neglected for some time. Um, yeah, and, and also not only that, to see how far they've come, you know, in many ways I, I use it as a, um, a measuring stick, if you will.
Um, 'cause I do it before coaching with someone and after, you know, coaching for a certain amount of time to, so they could see what shifted, you know? What changed within you? Like, this is exactly the space we worked with and this is what actually shifted. No, this is really cool to see like the, it's like a empowerment piece within ourselves to see that, wow, this is my body and it's, it's like me, like it's actually how I feel.
It's everything together and, and so it's really this self-love embodiment and from this place of deepening into ourselves, right? We know the right decisions to make. And the more deeper we know ourselves, the deeper trust that is there. You know, because we all get intuition, you know, we're intuitive creatures.
It's, it's that we don't trust it.Â
Laura Rotter
Yes.
Tammy Cho
Right. Not to trust it.Â
Laura Rotter
I mean, it really is the message that, you know, no, make a column of pros and cons, not, you know, don't just make decisions. I, I still remember my husband had a, a surgery set up for, um, I don't remember, it might have been his ankle, some something that he, no, actually it was his shoulder and as it was getting closer to the surgery, he was more and more unhappy.
And I said, it's so clear. You don't wanna go ahead with the surgery. It was elective. I said, when you are in enough pain, you'll want the surgery, but there's no need to push yourself to do something elective where your entire body is shouting out, I don't wanna do this. But somehow he couldn't hear it because it was like the doctor said this was an okay time and he had figured it out in his schedule and he did ultimately listen to me.
But it just, I think. I think our society tells us to make decisions with our heads and not to trust our gut. And frankly, you know, women were burned at the stake as witches for, you know, being intuitive and being open. To, um, things that you couldn't necessarily touch or see. And so yeah, it really is a relearning that we're doing and people like you are doing out in the world to say, not only is it okay, but it's important to listen.
Tammy Cho
Yes. Yeah, it is. And and, um, thank you for sharing that story because it, it is like, sometimes it's, we need that permission piece from someone else to tell us. 'cause we we're disconnected from a part of ourselves and we created boxes, you know, and sometimes we do need that. And, and that's the dynamic I see play out.
I think that's like beautiful and there's a dynamic that plays out where we learn to give our power away. That's part, very deep part of self-love too, right? Like to love ourselves, but actually step up in our power within that love and to create that impact out there, right? This is energy leadership.
This is authentic energy leadership, being ourselves and being able to put ourselves out there with so much love that we're just being in our true sense of our energy. And, uh, recently I had like three. Different groups I was part of where I just like went into my emotions and I was like, and part of I was, I was angry at something and I was like, just sharing, like I'm really pissed off.
And I went into it and it's interesting that in my business, like I started having people reaching out that used to work with me. I had like 10 people suddenly sign up on my email list. Like, it's like the flow happens when we are in flow. That's the energy match. We are natural receivers in our body. You know, and it's like what we're doing, many of us doing anyways, is that we're trying to use the mind to push and control to make things happen.
And you can create things that way, but then eventually there's a disconnect. Eventually you get burned out. It's tiring. Like there, there's gotta be a balance. And it's not that we ignore the mind because we we're just letting the heart lead and then we decide and decide what's logical, what's not. Like the mind is still a partner here.
It's not that it's not useful, right? It's just learning to let your, your being guide. Right. And so, yeah, I know you resonate 'cause you're nodding away.Â
Laura Rotter
So, and you know, it's interesting because I, um, I've had quite a busy year this year. I've almost doubled the size of my practice and, um, woman I know said to me, well, it's because you believe yourself to be worthy.
And I will say that. My original, my initial reaction was like, I think I always felt myself to be worthy though I could pinpoint where I started to charge for a part of my get to know you service that I was giving away for free before.Â
And okay, that does seem to have suddenly created a shift, which now, and I can, I, why I am bringing it up is I can sense my resistance to attribute it to the fact that there was a part of me that's like.
My time is valuable. Like I could sit and read a book, like I don't need to do this for free. And it was this sort of, as you put it, stepping into my power, um, in a way. And I hesitate as I say it, and I'm smiling a lot for anyone who's just listening. 'cause there is a part of me that's like, oh, that's very hokey.
No. But on the other hand, there has been a very big shift in, in practice. So it's interesting.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. And, and sometimes it's like, you know, these mini awakenings, like we make it up to be nothing. Right. And it's like, and it's, it's beautiful because it's like, sometimes it's a good measuring stick. 'cause some people will struggle with that for months to decide, make that decision.
Right. Um, and some people decide right away, it's sometimes it's like the worthiness is there, but we forgot that we have our power.Â
Laura Rotter
Yeah.Â
Tammy Cho
We forgot to set ourselves up to win. You know?Â
Laura Rotter
Yeah.Â
Tammy Cho
And so that's why it, it is a journey. And it's like, that's why I, I'm, I'm speaking about a plateau and, and that's how it looks in business.
But like I said, it could be that plateau in, you know, um, weight loss. I've had people release like energetic weight, you know, and it's like, 'cause oftentimes the embodiment of extra, you know, weight is protection. Not always, but oftentimes. Um, yeah. And so that plateau could happen everywhere. And, and it's like your journey where you're meant to go, what is your purpose?
And it's like, it's all connected. Like what is your soul really wanting? Your true desire, right? And according to that, your body, you know, your emotions, your soul will talk to you. And so it's, it's, it's, yeah. It's just, it's, it's interesting because it's so intangible. Yet, this is where we're guided to go, you know?
Laura Rotter
So, and it feels right if someone's listening to this and is guided to work with you, how do you work with people? Are there packages, is there a minimum amount of time? How do you work with, um, people?Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah, like I've been tracking a lot of people that like to work one-to-one. Um, so I definitely been, um, most of my plate is filled with that.
Um, I am looking into. Doing programs a little bit more regularly, but, uh, I'm gonna let the universe show me. Um, so I do have packages, um, depending on where people are at with their journey. And so this is a individualized process to see what are the people's needs, where they are on the journey, you know, what are their goals?
And sometimes it's just exploration because this is a gift to me because like yeah, like I, I already know that's resonating. I can't make sense why I can't make a reason why. I'm just gonna like do it because my soul feels cold. And it's interesting how many people come to me to say that to me. But, um, um, anyway, but yeah, like it's, it's one-to-one and it's just packaged according to where you're at and what you need.
Um, and we also, we always start with a face analysis. 'cause that shows a lot. Um, a lot of, um, counselors and therapists that have taken this, um, um. Face analysis, so to speak. They have seen that it's equivalent to four to six hours of therapy because you're actually seeing things right away. Um, so it's very efficient process, um, I feel to really help people on their journey, you know, so.
Laura Rotter
And to me it's quite unique. I really have never heard about it until, until we first started to speak.Â
Tammy Cho
Yeah. Many people say that, you know, uh, definitely mo most people say they don't know what it is, and so thank you for giving me the space to, to explain it. Um, and I, and I have a, a resource to say what your, you know, um, oh, what I, I recently might have changed the name, so I'm just making sure I'm saying the right name.
But what is your face?Â
Laura Rotter
What does your face say about your self leadership style? Yes. Thank you. I'll thank you very much. I will, I will definitely, um, have a link to that free resource in the show notes. So tell me, as I end my conversations, I do like to ask the question, how has your definition of success shifted from the first time when you graduated as a nurse and, and perhaps even financial success, if that feels relevant to you.
Tammy Cho
Yeah, sure. I'd love to. Um, I honestly didn't have any definition of success. Um, just have enough was probably the messaging. Um, and for me, um, what I noticed is that what shifted to me for what authentic success is to me is that, um, when I allow myself to fully be myself. This is where money flows. So to me that's almost like very similar to me.
So success for me is fully allowing myself to be my abundant, loving, um, compassionate self, um, and to really spread that energy, whatever that looks like. Um, and for me it's, it's having that. Connection and intimacy with my family. Like at the end of the day, we all know what matters are the people we love and our connection, um, to them.
And the joy, um, to me, um, when I do that, money flows. And it, it's, it's really getting out of our own way to be more of ourselves. So at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. Um, that's here what I've come to realize within myself. Um, and like you Laura, I was like, well, that's a dumb definition. I was like, no, it's not this and this is perfect for me because when I don't allow myself to be myself, that's why my life doesn't work.
So there you go.Â
Laura Rotter
You know, I mean, you sound to me, and I know you're not unique in this way around women to have to be a recovering people pleaser, and there is something about realizing that you know you are at your best when you are yourself. Being authentically yourself and bringing that again for people who are just listening, this beautiful smile, this, this glow that you have to your interactions with others and to your interactions with the world.
Tammy Cho
And, um, and. If you are at all like me, um, which is human, it is a constant practice. I'm sure you don't get up every day, um, and are, you know, definitely in your best space. And yet the recognition of what, how it feels like to actually be yourself, um, is a constant reminder too. Be that person. So I'm, I'm, yeah.
Laura Rotter
I'm so glad we met. I'm so glad that you agreed to be a guest on my podcast and, um, I look forward to continuing to get to know you.Â
Tammy Cho
Me as well. Thank you so much, Laura. I'm so grateful to have, you know, had this conversation with you.Â
Narrator
Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money Certified financial Planner, Laura Rodder specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning.
Go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey. Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.