A conversation with Constance McConnell, LCSW, Financial Therapist.. Constance shares her own journey to becoming a financial therapist who specializes in helping people navigate the emotional side of money during major life transitions.
What if the key to financial wellness isn't just about budgets and spreadsheets, but about healing your relationship with money itself? In this episode, Laura Rotter sits down with Constance McConnell, a licensed clinical social worker, certified financial social worker, and financial therapist who specializes in helping people navigate the emotional side of money during major life transitions.
Constance shares her journey from being the oldest of four children who creatively funded her own college education to building a successful real estate portfolio with her husband through strategic "house hacking." But more importantly, she reveals how our childhood money stories shape our adult financial behaviors—and how we can rewrite those stories to create healthier relationships with money.
This conversation is essential listening for any woman in midlife who feels overwhelmed by money, struggles with financial scarcity despite having "enough," or is navigating a major life transition. Constance's holistic approach reminds us that true wealth isn't just about numbers—it's about achieving balance across all areas of life: financial health, physical health, mental wellbeing, relationships, and time freedom.
Constance McConnell, LCSW is a licensed clinical social worker, certified financial social worker, and financial therapist who specializes in helping adults navigate major life transitions and improve their relationship with money. With 13 years of clinical experience, she has worked in school settings, behavioral health, and private practice. Most of her clients are part of historically marginalized communities including BIPOC, women, and LGBTQ+ individuals. Constance is also an entrepreneur and real estate investor who practices what she preaches about using money as a tool for freedom. She offers virtual therapy, coaching, and psychological evaluations, and is passionate about helping clients develop holistic approaches to wealth and wellbeing.
💡 Your childhood money story shapes your adult relationship with money: How your family talked about (or didn't talk about) money, whether you felt secure or scarce, and what you witnessed growing up profoundly impacts your financial behaviors and beliefs as an adult. Understanding these stories is the first step to healing.
💡 Money is a tool, not the goal: Financial security matters, but true wealth includes physical health, mental wellbeing, strong relationships, and time freedom. Using money strategically can free up time for experiences and people you love—that's when money becomes most valuable.
💡 Financial scarcity is often psychological, not numerical: Many people who are financially secure on paper still feel like they'll "never have enough." Working through these deep-seated beliefs with a financial therapist can unlock freedom and confidence to actually enjoy your money.
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Disclaimer: Please remember that the information shared on this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment or financial advice. It’s for informational purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.
Laura Rotter
What does it mean to have enough? In this episode, I talk with Constance McConnell, a licensed clinical social worker and certified financial social worker who specializes in helping people navigate major life transitions. Constance shares her journey from paying off student loans to building a real estate portfolio with her husband, all while learning that financial health is just one piece of a larger.
Puzzle. She reminds us that money is simply a tool, and true wealth includes our physical health, our relationships, our mental wellbeing, and perhaps most precious of all our time. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by money, struggled with the fear that you'll never have enough or wondered how to use money in service of the life you actually want to live, this conversation will resonate with you.
Please listen.
Narrator
Welcome to Making Change With Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rodder.
Laura Rotter
Welcome Constance to the Making Change with Your Money podcast.
Constance McConnell
Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me.
Laura Rotter
Of course I'm gonna ask you the first question I always ask my guests, which is Constance. What was money like in your family growing up?
Constance McConnell
Yeah, so I am the oldest of four and my parents had me when I was, when they were pretty young, and I saw a shift in my family's finances as I got older.
Because my mom actually went back to school. She went back to college when I was about eighth grade and then graduated from college and then got her master, and I think she graduated around the same time I did from high school. So I did see like a gradual transition of an increased income, but we didn't really talk too much about money, whether it was like not having enough or.
Having it, it was more about just, I always felt like I had my needs taken care of growing up. So I was always grateful for that. And my parents always taught us to be just good stewards of, uh, what we have in life and to take good care of things and be grateful for what we have. So I never really felt like I went without.
But I did see like a change as I got older and being able to buy more things that we wanted and my mom went and got her additional education and had an increase in her income.
Laura Rotter
So you did, how did you feel it, can you remember what, what changed in terms of your own experience?
Constance McConnell
Yeah, we were able, you could just even see like the small sets of Dan at like a budget hotel to transitioning to like Embassy Suites and having like breakfast included.
So like little things like that. We always tried to have a family trip, so we were able to go to Disney World and I would say a little bit more expensive trips for a family of six as I got older. And yeah, it was just like little subtle changes. So.
Laura Rotter
Thanks for sharing that. I love that you mentioned the gratitude part, and there were clearly family values that were passed along at each part of your family's financial journey. I always like to ask what the message around education was. 'cause obviously that impacts your financial.
Constance McConnell
Yeah, definitely. My parents always wanted us to do our best in school and. I think it was pretty much understood that we were gonna go to college.
My dad had graduated from college, um, and my mom like to see her when I was in middle school, pursue her higher education. That was like a really good example for me to just see it, see someone in it and have the drive. And at that time she had four kids. And so just to see someone like really. Not only give up on the dream, prioritizing it and, and taking the time and putting the effort into accomplishing that goal.
And she kept on going and she got her master. So it was just understood that we were going to go to school, college, and, but we, my parents never pressured me to pick a certain career. It was more of go ahead, get your degree and, and something that you're passionate in.
You're reminding me, Constance, that uh, my mother actually did get a college degree when she was pregnant with me.
And in those days you had to hide that you were pregnant to go to school. Yeah. But then when I was older, she went back and got her master's in education. And I remember there were a lot of nights of just Kraft Macaroni and cheese or, or, yeah. Fish chips and dropped it off. Yeah. Before she went to school at night.
So again, watching a parent handle the parental responsibilities while also pursuing education does leave an impact on you.
And it made me realize that I could do it right. If she had four kids and she was working part-time and she was gonna school like I could do it.
Laura Rotter
Exactly. Did your parents, were they able to set aside money for you or were you expected to make your way on your own?
Constance McConnell
No, they did not set aside money. I figured it out. I think being the oldest too, as just knowing that I'm leaving my nuclear family and knowing that I had younger siblings, I, I tried my best once I got to college to try to make my own money. To take care of the day to day thing. And even my housing, I was very creative, uh, became a resident assistant and so that helped pay for the housing and it helped pay for food.
And then I applied for scholarships. So it was a combination of me being creative, of trying to fund college and even take care of the day to day things associated with college. I worked at the register's office and I worked at Walmart, uh, and both of those folks had wonderful perks. As, as a young adult, like I got free glasses at Walmart, I worked at the center and I got to register first for classes, so I made money and I, I also take, took advantages of what was available to me in those roles.
Laura Rotter
Constance, what I'm hearing that is certainly not surprising as you're the oldest of four, but you were quite responsible. Yeah. Um, yeah. Not to be. Yes. Yeah. But certainly you and I know people, I'm sure you, you work with them who, to the extent they're coming to you, they're taking on responsibility, but it doesn't always come naturally to people to take on responsibility in general to be able to juggle.
Work and school life, and it's a foreshadowing of the profession you're in now, which is understanding money, how much you needed to get through the day to day. So I'm curious what you majored in and what your sort of professional journey has been to where you are today.
Constance McConnell
Yeah, so when I first started college.
I was a psychology secondary education major, but once I got there, I learned that they had ended that program. So I just transitioned to a psychology major. And I thought I really wanted to work in business as an industrial psychologist, and I took the intro class and I hated it. I went to my advisor and I was like, I thought that you get to work with people.
I didn't realize it was, it was, it's a lot of research space work and I was like, I really wanna work with people. And she had recommended that I take an intro to social work class and I loved it, and so I, I switched over to social work. Graduated with my social work degree and then I went on after I graduated and went and got my master's in social work and I specialized in working with individuals in the school setting.
And I, during that time I lived in Illinois and I provided group and individual therapy to students on my caseload and developed. Treatment goals and also evaluated them to see if they qualified for services, social emotional services or counseling services. So I did that and I went and got my clinical license as I was doing that and working with another provider in the area, uh, to acquire my hours.
And I kept on working in the school for a little bit and then my husband moved or got a job opportunity. In Wisconsin and we moved to Wisconsin and I transitioned into working in behavioral health at the hospital and did that for two years. And that was definitely a learning experience. I learned so much about the mental health field and the different fears of treatment and what that looks like within the community setting.
And I also. Transitioned back into the schools, did some more work around providing group group services and individual services. I also did a lot of consultations with teachers on just how to manage behaviors and support students in the classroom, and did some professional development coursework and sessions for teachers in our district.
That was a great experience. Um, and while I was doing that part-time, I was part of one of my really close friends private practice group and providing therapy on the side during that, and I really fell in love with telehealth because during that time it was the COVID lockdown and I started to really fall in love.
I had just with the working arrangement associated with, because I had just had a baby. So it definitely allowed more work life balance. So I went ahead and continued to do that and finally moved down to North Carolina and I started my own practice and specialized in working with adults via telehealth, and I was able to apply also during the COVID lockdown skills learned from the certified Financial Social Work Program into my practice.
So I opened that up in 2022, and I've been doing that since then.
Laura Rotter
Wow, that was like a very long-winded journey from getting married to having kids too. So, a bunch of questions come up for me. The first question is a more broad, basic question about who you are, Constance, which is, you talked about having this idea that you wanted to do industrial psychology and then realizing it's research and you really wanna work with people.
So what comes up for me is what about you had, you know, that was where you're drawn.
Constance McConnell
Oh man. Life experiences. But I think just naturally, like you had mentioned about being the oldest and responsibility, like that's just something that, it's part of who I am. I help people and I get a lot of joy from helping and help solve problems.
Providing, uh, provid sense of support to people that really fills my cup. So I knew that going into college, and that's why I wanted to first be a teacher. But yeah, that, that was just like a natural thing for me that I really enjoyed doing. And then I, the person your,
Laura Rotter
I'm curious, were you the person your siblings or your friends always talk to turn to? Yes?
Constance McConnell
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't know I could make a career out of it, but at that time. But yeah, I always got a lot of joy with just helping people, sharing resources, just being a support.
Laura Rotter
Thank you. And then of course, you just mentioned the different life transitions that you went through, whether it's marriage, having kids working full-time, working part-time.
If you could share. How money, how finances played a role in those decisions, if at all?
Constance McConnell
Yeah, I would say like when I first entered the professional role, all I knew was working full-time just because it was just me. I needed to support myself. So I was like, okay, I needed a benefits. So I was like, okay. But as I began to just learn more about money, I started to realize that money is a tool.
And I always knew the importance of living below your means. So I always did that and I started to just educate myself through many forms of media, like podcasts and YouTube videos, just learning about better ways to manage your money. And so I was able to pay off some debt. I was able to pay off my student loan debt post-graduation.
And I felt really proud about that and I just wanted to keep on going and so I just kept on exploring like other ways that I can use money as a tool. So I started to invest and I forgot, I dunno what it called, just like a teacher retirement. I did that, but they have a special. Four. 4 0 3 B. Yes. Started investing in 4 0 3 B, so just, I was like, okay, I have this money that I was using to pay down my debt.
Now I could, I'm done paying off my student loans, and so I just trying to reallocate it. So I started to use that money to invest. Then I met my husband and he was all, he was in finance. So we started having more and more conversations about money. Yeah. Yeah. And so we just, we just continue to have conversations and get on the same page of what our goals were.
And we paid off his student loans. We just kept on going with paying down other debt. So I had, at that time, I think we both had car notes, and when we got married, we got some money and we were able to use that money to pay off. Car note his car debt. Mm-hmm. So we just kept on going with, just like using money as a tool.
Sorry. We started to investing, investing more. We started, he was already, I don't know if you're familiar with the term, he was already house hacking. Do you know what house hacking is? No. Okay. House hacking is real estate investing strategy where you buy your house that you're gonna live in, but you plan on.
Either renting like a room or a section of the house, or like for his circumstances living in, we were living in Chicago during that time. They had, they're known for a flat, so he had bought a two flats and so he was renting the bottom unit. And so when we got married, we continued to do that and live below our means so we could pay off student loans and cars.
Stack up money, save it, that, and that just really propelled us to our goal of just investing and in stock and in real estate. We continue to do that. Even when we moved to Wisconsin, we have, we bought a two flat again.
Laura Rotter
So two flat is essentially a two family home.
Constance McConnell
That's how, yeah. Multifamily. Yeah. Yeah. So we did the same thing when we moved to Wisconsin.
We lived, and it was just us in the beginning in Wisconsin. So we lived in a two bedroom, one bath, and we rented upstairs and it was a one bedroom, one bath, and we continued to live below our means and continue to save. And that allowed us to buy more rental properties. And we continue to do that.
Laura Rotter
You are not the sum of your earnings. You are the sum of your earnings. If you are ready to use wealth to create more freedom and flexibility, let's align your finances with what matters most. Together we'll build a plan that balances your scarce resources of energy, time, and money. So you move forward with clarity, confidence, and less stress towards a life of true abundance.
Learn more at www.trueabundanceadvisors.com and schedule a short conversation.
So you have a lot of passive income that your rental properties are generating. Essentially
we have a portfolio.
Constance McConnell
Yeah, so now we do.
Laura Rotter
Do you manage them yourself or you have a, or you hire a property manager?
Constance McConnell
It's a mix. So we have some properties that are local that my husband manages, and then we have some properties out of state and that are few hours away that we pay for management.
Laura Rotter
Interesting.
Constance McConnell
Yeah, so we just continued to do that. Our whole relationship. We've been together, we've been married for almost nine years now, and. All we know is house hacking. So even when we moved down to North Carolina, we bought a single family and we converted the one car garage into a studio apartment, and we rent that on Airbnb now.
So yeah, we just continue the strategy.
Laura Rotter
I got a lot of questions. First of all, I guess I wanna make a comment that to the extent that Constance, you talked about paying down student loan debt, I always think it's important people come to me, you know about their kids, how much student loan debt is reasonable to take on.
Constance McConnell
And I'll tell you what my answer is. I'm wondering if you have a different one. What I had learned. Is that, look at what you think your first year of income might be based upon what profession you're interested in, and then that should be the most that you take on over the four years. Yeah, I see you're shaking your head, unfortunately.
Laura Rotter
Yeah. Private lenders and will give you as much money as you can take and yeah, you have to have, you have to have the gift of discernment definitely. Especially when you're young and you're like, you've never seen probably that many zeros in your life. It is so easy to access additional loans. But yeah, I definitely agree.
Constance McConnell
I knew going into social work, I wasn't going to be making like six digits. I wasn't gonna be making six figures. I was very, I would say, as I got older, so when I went into grad school, when I started applying to grad school, I was like, I am not paying for grad school. I gotta find a way to not pay for it.
Laura Rotter
So you were very discerning to use your word about how much debt you took on for undergrad and not taking on debt for grads. Yeah.
Constance McConnell
Yeah.
Laura Rotter
So I just wanna make sure my listeners who might be about to finance college education for their kids, or thinking about it too. Just because someone's willing to lend you the money doesn't mean you need to borrow it.
Constance McConnell
Yeah. Yeah. So first message, and then in terms of passive real estate investing, which certainly sounds like it has worked and continues to work for you and your husband. I've always been a little bit hesitant, only because in my previous career I worked with illiquid assets and there's certainly a role for them, and you don't want all your net worth to be tied up in a liquid.
Assets because we've all lived through housing downturns, not to have an expectation that real estate always goes up, et cetera, though there's certainly a lot of tax reasons that. Real estate is a good investment. But my question to you constant is what kind of due diligence do you guys do knowing that you could rent out your as an Airbnb garage?
Laura Rotter
So just what's your thought process?
Constance McConnell
Yeah, we do a lot of background work. So usually if we're gonna pick a new market, we've done a lot of research on it before we decide on a new market turns best end. We gotta see population growth, projection of continued growth, job opportunities, not just like one industry.
Yeah, yeah. And multiple ways to make money off of it too. So most of our portfolios are, we have long term tenants, but they are, there's some flexibility if we wanted to do like midterm or short term. And I know now. In terms of regulation, like some cities have more regulation than other around like short term rentals.
So just like doing research on, that's been really helpful. Let's see, and then we run our numbers. There's so many tools out there now that you can just plug in, like what the address is and like what the estimated range of rent is.
Laura Rotter
Oh really?
Constance McConnell
Um, and then you can also see what like current terms are, the rates.
You put that in there, a little calculated, and it'll tell you like your expected month to month income after all expenses. So we definitely tap into those tools to help us do an assessment.
Laura Rotter
Any in particular we wanna mention? Sorry to interrupt. Deal.
Constance McConnell
Oh my goodness.
Okay. It in a while. I know BiggerPockets, they have their, they have one that I've used in the past.
There was one that I really liked. I used to have the app on my phone all the time, but I hadn't been using it, so I took it off. It was deal something. Okay. But it's really cool 'cause if you have the address, just put it in there. And then a lot of the information from Zillow transitions over to the app.
So you can see what like typical taxes are. I know sometimes it needs to be updated, but estimated like insurance rate and it takes into consideration the interest rate of the loan property management, like all of those expenses for the area are transitioned over. Like I always recommend like doing your own research though, but it gives you like a guideline.
And then it tells you like how much money to we make per door. Sometimes that's not always accurate, but it gives you the baseline. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laura Rotter
So thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Constance, let's transition to talking about what you're doing now. Who, how do you work with people? The introduction had a little bit about who you work with, but if you wanna be more specific.
Constance McConnell
Yeah. As a financial social worker. And financial therapists. I work with clients virtually, so I see them either over the phone or via video, and we do our sessions that way. I provide either psychotherapy services, coaching services, and I even do psychological evaluations for clients that are applying for a financial hardship visa through immigration court.
But all that stuff is done virtually. Most of my clients are part of historically marginalized populations, so they identify as black Hispanic women, a woman, LGBTQ plus, even some, I have some clients that are even in rural areas and they're adults and I would say most of them are in their, the big between the professional age range, so.
Some of them are just entering their profession, so they're like around 25. And then I have clients all the way up to 65 and they're exiting their professional journey and, and then in between. So I really like working with the age range 'cause I like to hear people's stories and learn about who they are and try to incorporate some of the strengths and supports that they already have naturally into my practice.
I do a lot of what's called identity focused narrative work, and so it is pretty much an opportunity for clients to tell their story. I ask a series of questions. We do a lot of psychomotor exercises, AKA journaling, and reflecting on who they are, um, who they were growing up as children, and how it impacts their relationship with money Now as an adult.
Laura Rotter
I love that.
Constance McConnell
Yeah.
Laura Rotter
How long do people work with you? Is there, do you sell a package? How does the, how does it work?
Constance McConnell
Yeah. So my clients paid per the session. Okay. And most of my clients, I would say most people, the range is about six months. And then I have clients I've been working with since I started. Wow.
So it depends on what their goals are. My specialty is life transitions. So sometimes I have a client come to me, we focus on their goal, they feel confident in applying what we worked on, and they're dismissed, and then a year or two later, they come back because another life transition is happening. I do that.
I, I like the opportunity to maintain relationships with clients and see their personal growth. Over time and to be a part of it and be a support as they take that journey of doing some self exploratory work and figure out who they are. As adults. As adults, like we are moving so fast and a lot of times it's hard for us to down and to take time to focus on ourself.
And I've always tried to create like a safe space for clients to do that because I realized that once people feel like safe. And there's trust. They, they love talking about themselves and sharing their journey.
Laura Rotter
Thank you, Constance. I think we shared when we briefly met before this podcast that I too, when I started this financial planning practice, felt like, yes, people come to me about money and that's when why people pick up the phone and call us, but we are creating a safe, almost sacred space.
Constance McConnell
Yeah. To ask questions and have people reflect on things that. They don't do in other spaces, I'm sure. Well, you actually are, but I'm not. But I've had people say to me, I feel like you're my therapist. I'm like, I have no therapy training. I'm not your therapist, and I am. I think it's important work that we do.
Laura Rotter
Yeah. To give people a chance to reflect on what comes out. And I did wanna just comment that you talked about working and talking about money with your husband, and I'm sure. Now, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I was gonna say, you feel lucky that you're on the same page. 'cause of course we all come with different stories.
Constance McConnell
Not only do we come with different stories, but as you said, it's a long journey. Being married and raising children, we become different people. You've been married unbelievably, it's gonna be almost 40 years. Oh. You know, I'm not the same person I was. Yeah. I got married. Certainly. And not everybody evolves together.
Laura Rotter
So you're lucky when you do and you're able to talk about it. That's communication is the most important thing.
Constance McConnell
Yeah. And to share life goals.
Laura Rotter
So as we get to the end of our conversation, first of all, I guess I wanna make sure, is there anything else specifically about your practice and what people might be thinking before they contact you?
Are there specific hot button topics that go?
Constance McConnell
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I offer a free 15 minute consultation to clients that are interested in either coaching or therapy, financial therapy services. And some clients are coming to me and they're fearing that their relationship with money right now in the season of life seems very overwhelming.
I do, I'll give an example. Sometimes I have certified financial planners refer people to me that financially looking at the numbers, they're ready to, they can retire, but they are continuing to work and. They struggle with financial scarcity and there's this idea of I will never have enough. And I've learned to head through doing the work with clients.
A lot of our perspectives and views of money stem from childhood and what we were taught growing up. And, and so we do a lot of reflecting and journaling and processing of those money stories and working through where they are right now and grounding in what is true. We, I incorporate a lot of mindfulness to, to just give people the confidence to take control of their money and to not only.
Control their money, but also tap into what works for them and support that work for them to feel more confident in using money as a healthy tool in their life to do the things that they really enjoy and are passionate about.
Laura Rotter
I love it. So such important work. Constance, as we get to the end of our conversation now, I always like to explore how your definition of success may have shifted through your professional journey and your personal journey, and perhaps even financial success.
Constance McConnell
Yeah, I definitely have a more holistic approach to what success is. I think growing up and just thinking about. Money as a whole, like you just see on tv, like these people that are rich and then you just assume that they everything in everything else in their life is just perfect. And so I think just over time now, having a better understanding that money is a tool.
I think financial health is so important, but there's other parts of who you are that's just as important, like your own physical health. And having a strong social support system, I feel like that's very important. Your mental health is very important, and I think if you don't have those, then it's hard to enjoy your money.
Really. I think just looking at having balance and. Continuing to want to grow and improve yourself in all aspects of who you are in a holistic way. That's how I see wealth and success. And I forgot the last thing was time. I think I've learned over time, literally time that time is even more precious and more valuable, and money will allow you.
If you use it the right way to have more time in things that you really enjoy, if you use it the right way, exactly, will free up time for you to do the things that you enjoy with the people you love and the experiences that bring that are so much fun to do.
Laura Rotter
Very well said. I, I've often thought, and I heard someone add to it recently, I've always thought we have three scarce resources, which are money and time and energy, and we're always trading off one for the other.
Constance McConnell
Someone I met recently managed mentioned talent as a scarce.
Laura Rotter
Oh, okay. Yeah. So they hadn't done it before, but it's true. And certainly as you get older and closer to my age, I've really been. Grappling with the idea of scarcity. 'cause I did grow up with financial scarcity and, and trying to let some of that go and realizing you don't have all the time in the world and make sure you're not trading off too much for money.
Constance McConnell
Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's important to know what enough is.
Laura Rotter
Yes. Yeah. It's, as we've said, it's always changing. We're always, yeah. That's why we have mindfulness practices to, yeah. Make aware of the choices we're making. Constance, thank you so much for being my guest. I know you mentioned that you, I can put in the resources that you do a 15 minute complimentary consultation, so that would just be people would go to your website.
Constance McConnell
Mm-hmm. It's courage. The number two heal.org.
Laura Rotter
Wonderful. Thanks again.
Constance McConnell
Thank you for having me.
Narrator
Thanks for listening to Making Change with Your Money Certified Financial Planner. Laura Rodder specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning.
Go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey. Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.