A conversation with Carolyn Dow, head of Business Development at Seriatim, Inc. Carolyn brings her expertise in planning and problem solving, passion, and understanding of people to her role as a professional organizer.
Carolyn Dow owned and managed a successful catering company in New York City for 25 years. It was a natural pivot for her to join Seriatim, a leading Company in professional organizing and move management. She brings her expertise in planning and problem solving, passion, and understanding of people to her new role.
Carolyn shared her dramatic story of being smuggled out of Iraq at the age of 6, so that her mother could leave an unhappy marriage and retain custody. Her mother remarried, and Carolyn spent her formative years, from age 8 to 16, in Venezuela.
Carolyn's mom was very independent and entrepreneurial, and Carolyn herself recalls being a mature, responsible person at a very young age. She always worked, and put herself through college with a mix of savings, financial aid and scholarships.
She graduated from college with a theater degree and a minor in music, and did sing with a couple of pop-rock groups in New York after graduation. She also freelanced with a catering company that her mother had started. When her mother decided to move to Arizona, Carolyn took over the business. She enjoyed the work for many years, until the Covid-19 pandemic shut everything down in 2020. It was then she began to consider what she could do next.
"I was always fascinated with organizers because, as organized as I am in catering and my checklist and all of that, it doesn't mean my home or my papers or all those things are that way. But if you have to do it, you just find a way to do it. And so I thought, okay, great. I'd like to work with an organizer and figure out tips and make my wardrobe look easy to access and so on and so forth. And basically reached out to her and said: I don't know what's going to happen with catering. I don't know if I want to continue it, even if it comes back and I'd like to work with you." - Carolyn Dow
Key takeaways:
- Just go for it, and then you’ll figure out how to do it. Carolyn shared a story of agreeing to cater an event when she just started out that seemed like it was going to be way too big for her company. She followed her mother’s advice to go for it, and the event was much more manageable than she had anticipated. And she ended up working with the client, one of her biggest accounts, for 20 years!
- Consider the skills you’ve used in a previous career when searching for a new role. Carolyn had run her own catering company for 25 years before transitioning to a new role with a professional organizing and move management company. She knew that she had strong administrative skills, and thrives on interactions and relationships. She knew that she would not enjoy being behind a computer all day. She needed to be working with a team, at a job.
- Always be learning. After her long career as a caterer, Carolyn was ready for a new challenge. Her new role required her to learn new things, including how to use new technology. She is thankful to work with a supportive team that enables her to grow with less stress.
About the guest:
After 25 years of owning and managing a successful catering company in NYC, it was a natural pivot for Carolyn to join Seriatim. For more than two decades, Seriatim Inc. has been a leader in professional organizing and move management, bringing harmony and order to life transitions. Carolyn brings her expertise in planning and problem solving and her passion and understanding of people to the success of any project. People often describe her as warm and enthusiastic with a special knack for putting everyone at ease. Being fluent in Spanish has also been very helpful!
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/carolyn-dow-999aa04
Website: www.Seriatim.net
Email address: Carolyn@Seriatim.net
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Carolyn Dow: I was always fascinated with organizers because as organized as I am in catering and my checklist and all of that, it doesn't mean my home or, you know, my papers or all those things are that way. But if I, if you have to do it, you just find a way to do it. And so I thought, okay, great. I'd like to work with an organizer and figure out you know, tips and, and make my wardrobe look easy to access and so on and so forth. And basically, reached out to her and said, you know, I don't know what's going to happen with catering. I don't know if I want to continue it, even if it comes back and I'd like to work with you.
Welcome to making change with your money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now, here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rotter.
Laura Rotter: I am so excited to have as my guest today, Carolyn Dow.
Carolyn owned and managed a successful catering company in New York City for 25 years. So she founded a natural pivot to join Seriatim, which is a leader in professional organizing and move management. She brings her expertise in planning and problem solving and her passion and understanding of people to this new role.
So welcome Carolyn to the Making Change With Your Money podcast.
Carolyn Dow: Thank you, Laura. Thank you for having me.
Laura Rotter: My pleasure. I'm going to start with the same question I start each interview with, which is what was money like in your family growing up?
Carolyn Dow: So my Mother and my sister and I basically traveled a lot. Although my mother came from means, when she became independent, she divorced my dad and I'm from the middle East and it was a whole very big dramatic scene. She smuggled me out in order for him not to be able to take custody of me and remarried to an American. And I started learning English. And then unfortunately that marriage did not last very long either.
You know, it's just the way it is sometimes. So I was raised to be very independent. So my mother raised me and my sister without any financial help from any other family members or my stepfather. And we just, uh, were creative. You know, we, we lived carefully, but we weren't, you know, we didn't miss out on anything.
I did go to private high school when I came to New York. But yeah, and my mother is very entrepreneurial. So, you know, she's been through a lot of different careers and I was able to see that you just pivoting is no big deal, although I didn't do it that often in my life.
Laura Rotter: I love that you were raised by an independent woman. And Carolyn, could you share, you said that you, you were born in the Middle East, and then you left at a relatively young age. You had, you did high school in New York, but where did you spend your younger years?
Carolyn Dow: So, um, I was born in Baghdad, Iraq, we're Jewish, and my mother smuggled me out for different reasons, personal reasons, also it was a, a time that she saw that the, it was going to be very difficult for Jews to leave the country, so when we left, it was actually a, a pretty...It was a safer time as any. And, um, you know, we're very European. My mother had gone to boarding school in England, so I always had short hair. So I didn't look like a Christian girl or a Muslim girl. And so the only way to sort of smuggle me out was just to cut my hair off, turn me into a boy, which was not that hard to do at age six.
And then we escaped from Baghdad to Iran. And while we were there for one year, she met my stepfather was an American and, uh, we married him as he married him. And then we came to the States, to New York for one year. And then after that, his business, he was involved in film distributions. So. His company and his new position was going to be in Caracas, Venezuela, and all the area around there, Trinidad and the different islands.
And so that's actually where I spent my formative years from age eight to 16. And I loved it.
Laura Rotter: Wow. You mentioned in your bio that you are fluent in Spanish. And so I assume, do you get to use your Spanish a lot?
Carolyn Dow: All the time. I'm not even aware of when I speak it, but mind you, in learning English, I forgot all my Arabic, and I was already at the point where I was writing, and so that was sort of an unfortunate heartbreak, but, you know, picking up another language like Spanish was, was wonderful. And yes, I, I use it all the time. I love it.
Laura Rotter: So you were raised by an independent woman who was an entrepreneur. Did you take it for granted that you were going to go to college? What was the um…
Carolyn Dow: Actually, you know, no, that wasn't the case at all. You know, when we came to New York, it was in the middle of 10th grade.
My parents had not gone to universities. My grandmother or my step grandmother just thought it was an absolute waste. You know, me going to college was, uh, something I did on my own. I paid for it all by myself. I got whatever financial aid I got the Regents scholarship. I did well in school. So I went to school on my own, got there by myself.
Nobody delivered me there and put my clothes away. Like my other roommates in the triple did. And, um, yeah, I did it all on my own. Came out, didn't really have that much that I owed, but you know, I did, but. I just feel like I was thinking about my life, Laura. I was such a mature, responsible person with money at a very young age.
So I had a savings account, you know, before I went to college that every time I had a birthday gift, it went to my savings account. So I paid my BEOG grant right away and, um, got insurance, everything else that an older, more mature person would get, that was just automatically how I operated.
Laura Rotter: Well, I hadn't expected to hear that, Carolyn, given how you grew up. Your mother grew up with wealth. And so I hadn't expected to hear how independent you were. When do you remember your first job?
Carolyn Dow: Well, like first jobs were, I mean, first real job, I guess, was, you know, when I finished, uh, whatever it was, 10th grade. As soon as you can get working papers, I didn't go to the neighborhood.
Look around and see what boutique look like the most, you know, fun for me and just walk over and ask for a job. So, you know, my sister sort of the same way too. I mean, school ended, and it wasn't like, Oh, what are you doing for the summer? Or, you know, I never went to camp or anything like that in Venezuela. We, you know, we didn't do that.
So it was just like a natural thing. I just started working. I never even questioned it. I did that every single summer. And then when I was in college, I, you know, worked at restaurants on the side. I was also in the theater department. So I was able to get interesting projects where like, let's say the psychology department would have actors come in and we would play act specific situations for them to train the, you know, the, the, their students to deal with traumatic situations.
So that was my acting helped me in that. That was a paying gig. I was taking voice lessons. So somebody who was working on a new musical with some opera. that was a nice little singing recording gig. So I was always doing little bits and pieces from, you know, it was never like a, a straight line. It just wasn't.
Laura Rotter: Thank you for sharing that, that you took it for granted that financial independence at even at a young age was important to you to have your own money, your own spending money. And I'm also hearing that you were drawn to theater and singing, which I didn't know about you. Can you share some of that?
Carolyn Dow: So.You know, I was always a ham, I have to say.
Laura Rotter: I can see that. You have a presence.
Carolyn Dow: That's sweet, thank you, I appreciate that. So when I, when we first came to New York, you know, I would be learning English from watching the commercials, watching, you know, I Dream of Jeannie. I certainly could relate to her because she's from Baghdad and she was so pretty and, you know, all these different little things, but I really learned a lot besides school from, um, television.
As I was always singing, my mother actually was a singer herself. She had done some singing and when she lived in Vienna, so we're you know, pretty vocal family in that way in high school, the high school that I went to, they had a very big Gilbert and Sullivan program, which is not something that most people get exposed to it's light off of Manhattan or light opera in general.
And, uh, we had a great musical teacher. He was a very important piece of the school. And so that's when I. You know, really got into singing. And by the last two years, I was getting the leads in the shows. And then by the time I went to college, my week that I was there while everybody's bopping around from party to party during orientation week, I was auditioning for shows, auditioning for voice lessons and, and kind of fell into it pretty quickly, you know, right, right from the start. So yes, I did sing.
Laura Rotter: And then what happened to that aspiration?
Carolyn Dow: So, well, I didn't actually go to college with the intention of studying theater. I was going. I say business and psychology, but the truth is I was spending so much time late in rehearsals, you know, till midnight doing these fun shows. And then of course running around the dorms driving whatever patient sweet student I could get my hands on to tell me what the macroeconomics course was all about the night before.
And luckily, I was a good tester. So I would cram. And, you know, take the test and then pass out, of course, from it. And then I thought, well, if I’m putting all this time into it, I might as well get a theater degree. So, I did I have theater degree with a minor in music and then I had enough business courses.
So after college because we lived in Manhattan really coming to New York was no big deal I mean, I know a lot of other people it was, you know, the move to Manhattan getting a waitressing job Here I just you know moved back in with my mom for just a few months because I realized that was not going to be very good at that age and just, you know, rented different places with roommates.
I did some auditioning. I was in a couple of acting programs. And then the thing that I sort of ended up in is auditioning for different pop rock groups. And so I was in a couple of pop rock groups here in New York. And it was very fun.
Laura Rotter: So cool. Any, any fun names?
Carolyn Dow: Pillow. I'll just say it was Glamour Rock. Okay. It was just like four female singers, a full backup band. And then, you know, hair and makeup and costumes was the most important thing out of our off of it, but I certainly thought it was very cool. And I met very interesting people that I really would not have met had I not been in that band. So that was, that was good.
And I was waitressing on the side. Oh, and I should mention while I was in college is when my mother had started the catering company. So I was also freelancing with her. She would hire my friends. I started freelancing with other caterers. So that's how I paid my bills. I wasn't paying my bills as a singer. That was just like the dream that I was going to be famous and successful.
And then my mother. Decided she didn't want to stay in New York and was looking for a restaurant and moved out to Arizona and basically just said, you know, I, I know you didn't choose the catering company. I didn't even know how to cook it those days. Anyway, you know, give it a go. Let's see if you can make something of it. At the time she already had a chef. And all of, uh, the chef was from Thailand. She was fabulous. So, me and all her friends were, you know, the cooks. So since I had started freelancing with other caterers, I really was learning the business quite well from, you know, very big events and also collecting other people that I worked with that I really liked working with.
So when I transitioned into my mother's business, which there was very little of it, she had just really started it about a year or two years before. I was able to sort of grow with it and I definitely took it to another level. I use my music connections, the club connections, and, uh, yeah. And so that's what I did for many, many years.
I was Carolyn, the Caterer.
Laura Rotter: So Carolyn, when you first told me you were a caterer, I just assumed that. And, um, and we discussed this before how you had very strong cooking skills and so decided to share it with the world. Obviously, that's not the case. So can you give our listeners a sense of what a catering business is and what were the skills that you brought to it that helped you grow? What sounds like was a fledgling business.
Carolyn Dow: Well, I mean, I'm clearly outgoing and not shy with people. So when I met, you know, interesting connections like the managers of clubs, that to me was like the most exciting thing. So of course I would, you know, take my friends there, visit, hang out. And find my way to connect and do events there.
Like I said, the chef that my mother had, Suni, was awesome. So she really was the food department. I didn't even have to know how to cook anything. I had the recipes that my mother had. I was also very creative. So what I found when, um, when I was working with other catering companies, this one particular company who's doing huge events, the manager would literally take me from one event to another, spend a couple of hours setting up, making platters and then leave that to run itself with the staff that they had and then take me to the next job.
And I'm like, Oh, okay, this is kind of cool. You know, I wasn't sort of just left behind to clean up and so on the things that I did not love to do. So I really got to learn about, you know, how things are presented. I got great ideas from what other people did. You know, I didn't take on huge jobs that were difficult for me.
I wouldn't do like sit down dinners, but cocktail parties were very easy. A lot of it is, uh, you know, it just gets easier and easier. It really is the quantities. That's the most difficult to measure. And I have to say, I really became a lot better at that than my mother who was making you look like enough to feed a hundred people for thirty.
And I was able to really, you know, be able to be generous and yet know how to not spend more than needed. So I was able to make a good income from it. And I just surround myself with really good people. I have you know, I still, you know, people that I'm in touch with now that I've worked with for many, many, many, many years. So I think I try to be a good boss as well
Laura Rotter:. I mean, it sounds like obviously you've mentioned people skills, both for getting the business as well as getting people that are happy to work for you. It also sounds like organizational skills, which makes, you know, gives me a little bit of dizziness, right?
Because you're coordinating an event. And then I guess food service in general, I feel like at the end of the day to be profitable, you do have to have a good sense of how the amount of food that you need because it's so easy to have food waste
Carolyn Dow: And all the and all the extra hours of prepping for food, food that gets wasted. So yeah, that was great. So I'm sorry, what was the question? So, well,
Laura Rotter: I'm still trying to get a sense of the business of catering.
Carolyn Dow: The main thing is, you know, you meet with the client, you go see them. I look at the home. I, you know, I know some caterers would, for example, be sending menus and all sorts of stuff before they even saw the place.
It doesn't work that way for me. I really need to meet the person. I need to imagine what our setup area or our, if it's not somebody's home. It could be in, you know, in the back area of a club or the service elevator of some other space because that's the only place you have to sort of be behind the scenes.
So I would do that. Get a sense of what the layout is going to be. And then discuss menu to get a sense of what the client likes. And then, um, one part of it, that's a little bit stressful and that's the rental. That's when you're renting tables and chairs and linen, all that. And that's very detail oriented and you cannot make mistakes.
And then you just hope that the order that you place when it comes on that day, that there's nothing missing. So there's like very anxious moments. in before the party gets going because you can't control everything you can't control the truck that's delivering this or did the ice man come up in time for us to chill those cases and cases of wine and champagne. Honestly by the time i got to the party i was just spent i was exhausted because i had been supervising the cooking even though i wasn't doing that, the shopping, the pulling together of all the pieces.
And then I would just sort of go there and then my crew would sort of take over and I'd say, okay, give me a job. You know, I'll do the dessert display, something easy, like mindless. So yeah. And then everybody, you know, pitched in and I was lucky. I had really nice clients who trusted us and. It's really great.
Laura Rotter: I mean, Carolyn, you clearly enjoyed the work. You did it for quite a long time. How do you know how to price? Is that just based on what the market would bear? I'm curious how you price a catering event, just in general, how you get a sense.
Carolyn Dow: Pricing is hard, so definitely want to know what the market can bear, but, you know, also coming in when I was young and not very experienced, I mean, there were some jobs that I must have given ridiculously low prices for, and yet I still managed to make the money, but it would be like, wow, I didn't need to charge them this in order to get that.
And so you sort of learn from experience. It's hard because there's such a range of what people charge, you know, there's the very, very high end caterers. And then there's people who just do like deliveries from places and call it catering. So you kind of find a range, you know, you try to, it's almost like even what I do in the business now, I try to get a sense of what does the person think is the range of what their expense is going to be, and you try to read it and make the adjustment accordingly.
Laura Rotter: It's more an art than a science in general. I've, you know, of course, I'm in a service business and people say, you know, if 100% of the people you're talking to agree to work with you, you're clearly not charging enough. And on the other hand, if very few people you're talking to end up working with you, you're charging too much. It's, you know, an interesting balance.
Carolyn Dow: I always try to leave the door open. And I even do that now. You know, I'll say, okay, it's going to be this. And if for some reason like, oh, I don't know, what can we do?
It's funny in catering when, you know, like, so my biggest account that I had, I'll tell you, was the Film Society of Lincoln Center. I happened to meet the people as the, as the building was being built. This is going back in time. And, uh, you know, when, when the theater actually opened, we all got flyers under the door and I remember contacting the lady that I had met – a really nice lady, assuming that everything was in place.
Cause they said, Oh, we're going to have these Woody Allen screenings. And I knew that the theater held about 270 people. So, these like, those are large numbers for a young person. And I remember saying, Oh, congratulations. I see your the theater is getting built. I just got the flyer. And I assume you have, you know, things lined up for this event.
That's coming up three days of events, by the way, right? Way too big for me. And she said, no, we haven't. And so I thought, oh, you know, and she said, you know, why don't you bid? And the one thing my mom always sort of stressed is just go for it, and you’ll figure out how to do it, you know, you just go for it, like deal with it afterwards.
And so that is, you know, it's the same thing like the imposter syndrome is like, Oh my God, like, am I really going to get it right? But so I remember that it was like 300 people each day for three days straight, like so way above what I could handle. And I said, Oh, well, if it's, it's going to be glassware and pas d’odeur and this number of people, it's going to be this budget.
It was, you know, a generous budget because that's what it costs when you have that many people and staff and all of that. And then it came down to it's like, well, I don't know. We don't really want to do that much. Well, what could we do if we do plastics? And what could we do if we don't do passed? And because of their own financial limitations, the party became something that I could really handle a lot more easily.
So, okay. I didn't need 20 people in staff. I can get away with six people in staff. I don't need to order so much rental. We could do plastics, which is very easy to dispose. Cause you're getting 300 people coming out of the theater at the same time. So it's not like, you know, well. That's the way it ended up being, but that all happened because they kind of couldn't afford what they thought they wanted.
And then because I was amenable and happy to work with them and still did a good job and still did well, and also got a lot of exposure from that job. So we were there for 20 years, every month, place was rented, no contract. They just give me the date and it was a wonderful relationship and a great growing experience for me as well.
Laura Rotter: So it's clear, as I said earlier, that you enjoyed what you did. So help our listeners understand how the change happened, that you're in a completely different role.
Carolyn Dow: Well, um, so I did do catering for a long time and you know, there were times when it was very, very busy and there are other times that it wasn't quite so busy.
So just like I said, you know, my mother is very entrepreneurial. So, you know, if you need to get another part time job, I started doing the flowers in our lobby. I didn't like the flowers that they were bringing. I was like, Whatever it is, I'll do a better job. So that became another little side job.
Another side job when, when it was off season and things were a little quieter towards the end of the, the catering. Cause I didn't want to do such big, huge events anymore. They were really so exhausting. I helped the family, one of my neighbors, their daughter had to go to ballet like three or four times a week.
So I picked her off from school, took her to ballet. While she was at ballet, I do my food shopping and then pick her up. And so I use my time very well. So, you know, I can't say that when, when I pivoted. The catering was at a high, it was, I did some jobs. I did have, I did have some very nice clients, but I was always still looking or, you know, balancing it out with another little side gig.
And so the reason I moved from catering is because when COVID happened, of course, you can imagine the first thing that happened is events got canceled and I had you know, a few of them lined up, uh, that were supposed to be, one of them was for the Equinox club. It was for the Vernal Equinox. So it was specifically on a particular day in March. That's the Vernal Equinox. And I did that for several years and that kept on shifting. Is it going to be outdoors? Is it not? And so when everything froze, I really, like, I, I got to this point of Zen and I'm not the most Zen person or have not been up till. I just love the, you know, the lack of franticness about, you know, the job and is there going to be traffic and, uh, All the little things that you have to depend on to get there in time. And I just sort of took a deep breath. Nobody was doing anything. So it was like, okay, I can do nothing. And then thought, all right, what am I going to do?
Cause I, I don't think I really want to go back into it in that way. You know, it's just, Like I said, it's physically, it takes its toll. So I had reached out to Sonia Weishappel who started Seriatim. I had met her at a networking group that she had come and I was always fascinated with organizers because as organized as I am in catering and my checklist and all of that, it doesn't mean my home or, you know, my papers or all those things are that way.
But if I, if you have to do it, you just find a way to do it. And so I thought, okay, great. I'll, I'd like to, you know, work with an organizer and figure out. You know, tips and make my wardrobe look easy to access and so on and so forth. And basically reached out to her and said, you know, I don't know what's going to happen with catering.
I don't know if I want to continue it, even if it comes back and I'd like to work with you. And that was actually my first call. And, um, yeah, like after we all sort of realized that we weren't being shut down for just two or three weeks. So it was, um, plenty. That's exactly right. And luckily Sonia, I had met her several times because, you know, there were events going on during that time.
So I got to hang with her a little bit and I was like, okay, you know, let's see what this is. And she said, I had to talk to her recruiter. I'd never spoken to a recruiter before. And I was like, oh, okay. Learned the whole zoom process. And then I applied with a couple of other organizers, you know, through people that I knew just from introduction that while I was waiting and then, uh, Saray autumn sort of just, you know, kicked in.
And honestly, it was it's been the perfect match. It's a pretty solid. A little bit of a bigger company than a lot of organizers. And so they brought me in and I thought I would come in as a project manager, but then Sonia felt that, you know, having been a small business owner myself, that I brought more to the table.
So I am business development, but really have my hand in everything. And I'm the one that's doing a lot of the client facing these days. So I go to people's homes and do estimates and meet with them and bring them the cake that I used to always bring in catering anyway. You know, you try to keep these things always, it was a nice touch. So that's how that happened.
Laura Rotter: So of course, we're going to talk a bit more about that, but I just like to step back. So you've always just been supporting yourself, right? Your mother's not reliant upon you. Do you have anyone else in your family that's reliant on you?
Carolyn Dow: I mean, for many years after my mother, you know, sort of just left the business, I did give her a consulting fee.
So she, she got a nice consulting fee for many, many years. And that was great. I mean, she deserved it. And, um, I got married and, you know, we, and had a child Spencer and, uh, His dad and I separated and then divorced. So I did get child support, you know, but I still had to share on a lot of the expenses, but I was lucky early on the apartment that I lived in had gone co-op. So I was able to, it was an insider price. That was another thing as a young person, I managed to make that happen. I don't even know how I did, but I did. And so, I, you know, I have my own property that is own brought outright.
Laura Rotter: And you're, you know, what your monthly payments are. You don't have to worry about the rent being raised by some large percentage.
Carolyn Dow: But whatever it is, what it is, I feel very lucky. It's a nice, nice apartment. So I raised my son here. You know, I put aside the money in the 529, all those things that they tell you you're supposed to do. I was so diligent. It was like. Of course I can do this, you know, and I, but I still went on trips and, and, you know, have great friends and spent money enjoying myself.
I just never really was an over the top spender. I don't, you know, go to Bergdorf Goodman's and buy designer things. I mean, once in a while, but naturally just more careful, I guess.
Laura Rotter: I was just trying to get a sense, Carolyn, of whether there was a period of time perhaps around when COVID started where, where there was more uncertainty around your finances or, and you strike me as someone who made sure you had an emergency fund and you had savings given your personality.
Carolyn Dow: I definitely had that. And then I found out that I could get unemployment, which I was like, wait, how does Carolyn Dow Inc get to pay Carolyn down unemployment? I didn't really realize that, no, this is a different kind of thing. So that was, I'd never gotten unemployment before. So that was exciting. So that, you know, that, And I, you know, I just, yeah, I managed, I managed.
Laura Rotter: You managed. That's, that's great to hear. So, so now you've segued into a new role as a business development, uh, at an organizer. Can you tell us both about the company? And then what I asked earlier, like what skills are you bringing to this new role? That gets you excited because I can see how excited you are.
Carolyn Dow: I'm excited because I'm here talking to you, Laura. So what I thought when I reached out to Sonia is professional organizers. So, you know, fix things, make things pretty, don't have more than you need, simplify. What I didn't realize is that the company is really more about move management. So the professional organizing piece falls into the move management, but it's sSo much from beginning to end. So just, you know, just before I got on with you, I was speaking to somebody who got our name and he's, they're downsizing. They're moving from several bedrooms here in New York city to a one bedroom and an assisted living in New Jersey. And so they have the stuff that they've acquired all their lives.
And you know, what, what can they give to their family members? Or a lot of times the family members don't want those things, but it's possible that they can monetize some of those things. So we deal with the estate buyers, we deal with the appraisers, we arrange for things going into donations, and then we arrange for the different move quotes from the different movers and literally get them from step A to step B.
Sometimes, uh, we're working with the floor plan of where they're going to be. So we need to be very clear with specific measurements as to what of the furniture that they have now can actually be used to accommodate them comfortably where they're going to be. And then when the load out is done, then in a perfect world, our team would be there to help settle them in and put things away.
So this was not. You know, the businesses that people were thriving in when COVID kicked in were not things that I could do. I really felt like I was the kind of person that had to be on the job, working with the team, not isolated in some corner. And that's something I really made kind of clear because when I was put into business development, I thought, Oh, I don't want to be kind of alone, like zooming with people, learned how to zoom, learned Google calendar.
And now like Google calendar, if I don't see it, I have no idea where I'm even going in the next few hours. A lot of skills that I really learned a lot on this. And, um, we have an admin team together, so we're very supportive. So when I'm freaking out about something out and we put it on the computer. I just call our lovely Laurel, the project coordinator, who's patient as sweet as can be, and just will walk me through it.
And I'm like, thank you. So it's been very supportive and I've learned a lot. And in terms, I think of what I bring is. I mean, clearly, I'm, I like people, you know, you asked me.
Laura Rotter: Very clearly, I love that. You know that about yourself, Caroline, what you just explained, what you couldn't do. You could not just be in front of a screen all day long running numbers.
You thrive on interaction and relationships. So recognize that about yourself.
Carolyn Dow: And it's funny because going back to as I was growing up, you know. From moving so much, whether it's Iraq to Iran, to the States, to Venezuela, back to the States, you know, I was always coming in the middle of the school year. So it's not like things were planned.
So beginning of third grade, I'm going to be starting with the class. You know, I'd show up like in December and in a school where everybody's. I'm the foreign one and they're totally foreign to me. So having to fit in was a very important thing for me to do. So I think those are just kind of skills that I just sort of picked up early on.
So I do feel very comfortable so I can go see the most spectacular home with, you know, very. Successful owners and be very comfortable talking to them and then swap, you know, walk into the kitchen to take photographs. If the lady is from South America or speaks Spanish or Portuguese quickly bond with her.
And it makes me feel good. And it makes them feel good. Cause I just feel like I sort of opened up the little world around us. And so that aspect of it, I really love, I like, you know, meeting the people, making them feel relaxed and, uh, hopefully that they're in the hands of somebody that they can trust and also will enjoy working with me, you know, that I, that I bring a spirit.
So when they say, well, how do we know, like, what's the difference between you and this? And let's say this particular job wasn't so complex and let's say. Other companies could do it. If there's something that makes you comfortable with a particular person, you want them to be part of the journey because there are changes that are going to take place, but you want.
So that's something I hope I bring to the table. I'm also very practical. So I really try to find ways that. Is a little easier to streamline the job. I, I think because I'm sort of new to the business. I mean, I've been in it for 3 years now. So I really have a pretty strong grip on it. I think I speak with them in a way that lets them know I understand that they don't understand because a few years back I didn't get it either. And this is what I've learned. And this is how it will play out. So that's something I think I bring, you know, different vision in that way. And, um, you know, I'm a New Yorker, a lot of our stuff, you know, we do things of course, in all the different states, but a lot of the stuff is here, in Manhattan.
And, you know, when I meet people after I sit and chat before, you know, it, after you talk about, Oh, where did your kids go to school? Where, where did you live? You find that it's a very small world and you're able to connect with them. It's just in a nicer, more human way before you even start talking about the job. So that's the part that I really love.
Laura Rotter: Thank you. And what I'm hearing, Carolyn, is that you, you work with a lot of people in transition, right? I mean, a move management really can be an anxiety provoking experience for your clients. Can you tell me a bit about that and how you work with it?
Carolyn Dow: Sure. Well, I mean, There's some people, especially in New York, that have lived in the same place for thirty, forty years.
They raise their kids there. If they have garages, those garages become their very deep storage spaces. So, you know, and a lot of times they're moving because sometimes it's, you know, somebody passed away and they need to sell the home. You know, nobody's living in the home. The adult kids are the ones that are having to cope with this.
Let's say the second parent passed and we're dealing with all the belongings, memorabilia, things that really require a lot of sorting through and even important papers. Um, when somebody is going to, uh, as facilitated living or even to retirement places, they're going from what was a very big space usually to a much smaller place.
So they now have to pick the things that they want or need if. These people are going through, um, you know, physical issues and, and, uh, emotional situations, maybe they're having poor memory. It's very important that we keep for them the things that are going to create a chance for them to recollect and relive their, their, their lives.
So things start to have a lot more meaning than just, do I want this or do I not want that? It's like. What is this? What? What feeling is this eliciting in me? Is this my favorite out of these? So therefore I don't need all of that stuff. So there's a lot of layers of helping people say goodbye to things and embrace a new life.
A lot of times, you know, we don't deal with hoarders very often. But once in a while we do and there's a very complex emotional component with somebody who's either acquired all this and maybe passed away and now their family member is having to really deal with it and it is overwhelming on every level, or sometimes they're actually living in it, and it's not safe.
So for many reasons, people need to make adjustments in the way they're living. And, um, their kids are not always around to do it, or can do it, or everybody has good intentions, you know. And then sometimes people are just moving from, you know, a townhouse to a regular apartment. The townhouse has lots of walls, so they have lots of artwork on the walls. Now they're going to a modern apartment. It's all windows. So there's very few walls to start with. And then of course, you don't want to bleach the beautiful artwork. So they have to change the way that they lived. And this is an opportunity to, you know, bring in buyers for the art.
And that's something I love.I love dealing with the buyers and learning about what has value and what furniture can, you know, can find a second home and what can actually bring in an income. And that's exciting for me, my mother, besides having been a singer and a million other jobs. was also a mixed media artist, so art is a very important piece of what we do. So there's, there's different aspects of it that, that I really like.
Laura Rotter: I'm hearing beyond just your facility with people and comfort, that there is a certain sensitivity that you need to have, because for many people this is quite a big change in their lives and it's emotional. And so that's part of the skill that you bring.
One other question that's coming up for me about, you mentioned the, the stress that was inherent in catering an event. What are the stresses that are inherent in your role or, or because you're high level? Are there fewer? How does it compare the organizing?,
Carolyn Dow: High level! Um, it's high level in, in terms of I'm the one, you know, on, in many cases, Sonya and I together, you know, we'll bring in and be very connected with the client before the project actually starts.
And then it falls into other people's plates or lanes, but you know, we're CC'd on everything. So I know everything that's going on. I think stressors are things like, that's just life, you know, so you plan a particular way. And then maybe the person that we're helping falls ill and now, you know, the move that we had scheduled on a particular time is not going to happen and you want to make sure are the movers going to still be available on these other dates because that's not what we booked them for.
So I think it's really important to have very strong relationships with the vendors so that you can develop that kind of a thing so that when something happens, you know, you're high on their list for when things need to shift. So I'll say. Move changes dealing with all the paperwork, especially in Manhattan for going, you know, the certificates of insurance.
I mean, you can't bring in a chair without certificates of insurance for the building. And all of this became exacerbated with COVID. Nobody was coming in and out, including pickups of donations. So I, I sort of came into the business when it was really in disarray because of things that were beyond our control, like people weren't picking up donations.
So it's opened up a little bit more and now it's a little bit easier, but I got to learn it from where we had to do so much more because we didn't have access to the deliveries back and forth. You know, you just. You just want it all to just go well. You just want them to be so happy at the end. You just want the logistical piece to just sort of fall into place.
You know, I hope that when I'm putting together an estimate that I was accurate enough so that if it should go over, it's not going to be, you know, that much more that I was Careful enough to check to make sure that they have storage downstairs in the basement. Like, that's something I forgot. And that's something that requires a whole other thing then.
But, but I'm very careful about that. I like, I go write everything down. I take photos like crazy so that you'd have your visual reminders of the situation. It's not as stressful as catering. Catering is a very short little window, you know, you have like eight hours to do it, you do it, you know, you hope that, that you hope that everybody's going to show up, that the one waiter didn't get sick and he can't replace himself last minute or it's, it was different kind of stress.
Here, it's a little more stretched out and you're able to sort of maneuver usually, but a lot of times it's, you know, things happen, life happens. Somebody that you think is going to be going to facilitated living, they end up passing and now the project is becoming estate rather than just sort of getting them onto their next place.
So those are the things that you have to adjust with as.
Laura Rotter: Exactly. Thank you for answering and for reminding us that, you know, shit happens. That's life. It's constant change. So, Carolyn, for our listeners, you've mentioned that you work with seniors moving towards assisted living. You mentioned that you work with downsizers. Can you describe for our listeners, if they're... considering one of these downsizing or dealing with a parent, specifically, how you would work with them and how they can get in touch with you if they're interested.
Carolyn Dow: Well, first of all, I encourage everybody to get in touch with me, at least for a phone call. And if it's in the city and I can come over and see them, then that's great. You know, we, if we get the referral through a referral partner, or they had a way of coming to us like the show, for example, there would be no charge for the consultation. Sometimes we do the consultations via FaceTime and that, that can be enough.
But like today I was speaking to a gentleman and, you know, he can do a zoom, but he's not able, he doesn't have a, uh, an iPhone to do the FaceTime. He can do the zoom on the desktop, but we're not able to see anything unless he starts like a desktop. So I'm going to be going to see him because I don't want him to stress out about how we're going to get this done.
No problems right across town. It's my pleasure. They can reach us, uh, by, they can contact me at Carolyn at seriatim. net. They can call, uh, on my direct line, 212 -580-2257which is my direct line. You can go to the website and the fun is so it's, it's seriatim. Uh, ink or seriatim. net and the phone number is there, but chances are that message that they leave there will be coming to me probably anyway.
So I would say, you know, email me and the people. So besides the elderly people who have to move, sometimes people I'm, we're helping a friend of mine's daughter is moving from one place at NYU to another apartment. And, you know, and I told her mom over lunch that this is what I've been doing. She's like. You mean you and she lives in Arizona. The mother, she's like, you mean you can help her and I don't have to come in and help her pack. And I'm like, yes, we can. And she's like, Oh, thank you so much. Those are simple. You know, those are simple, just easy transitions, not so complicated. And the people that come to us that are our direct referral partners tend to be Trust advisors.
So it can be the trust and estates attorney. Because they're representing the families when there's an estate involved, we deal with the financial organizers and the wealth managers, because selling a home is a very important piece of somebody's portfolio. In a lot of cases, maybe they have more than one in our clients tend to have additional homes. So maybe they don't need to have that at this particular time in their life. And they're able to, you know, parlay the income from that to something else.
And it could be even selling the home for them to have a better lifestyle in a really fabulous retirement community. So the trusted advisors, and then also the real estate brokers, because when they come in and they're seeing a great apartment and they can't wait to get it on the market, there is so much that has to be done emptying out, getting everything ready, painting, redoing the floor, staging, photographing. So we work with certain teams and that will, as soon as they get a listing, they bring us in because they just know it's just going to sit for months and months and months, and that's extra expense that, you know, that the clients are paying maintenance and all of that stuff while it's sitting on the market. So those, those are the people just moving in general, you know, if it's more than you can handle. Give me a call. Let's see if we can help you.
And then so also we'll get, we'll get calls from like, let's say a young couple who have a three year old and a five year old. And, you know, because they're shifting ages so quickly and clothes are being grown out of very fast and toys are all over the place, we will come in and give them, uh, you know, structure things for them and organize them so that.
So that's another typical thing. And that's where we come in is just literally just. Just organizers, and there's no move involved, but it's still giving them a sense of a better use of their space and calmness and being able to donate things and not just being overwhelmed with not only the kids, but all the kids.
Laura Rotter: Thank you so much for clarifying that talent. We've discussed that. It's it's not easy to tell on the website exactly what it is that you do, but it sounds like the firm does a range of tasks from move management to organization and a bit of both.
So as we get to the end of our conversation, I always like to get a sense of how you've redefined success for yourself and perhaps even financial success over the last years.
Carolyn Dow: Okay. So success is being healthy. I see that all the time. So that's something I sort of took for granted. Not anymore. Being connected with people, staying in touch with friends and family, I think is really important because you're you know, seeing these situations where maybe people had unresolved relationships and then, you know, one of those people is not there anymore and the pain that brings.
So that's very important. I have all my insurances that I need to have because people worry that I, like, I hope it's right. And that's why people come to talk to you, Laura, so they can hear. So they do have an abundance, a way of living. So, you know, there's obviously a certain amount of money that has been put aside.
I hope not to go into that till, uh, I retire whenever that is. And just, you know, having balance with love, health. community, which, you know, I've always created a really wonderful one around me. And, um, all those things I think are success, you know, meeting great people and being inspired and learning new things, you know, and catering towards the end, I was kind of, you know, wrote and here I'm learning new things all the time.
Laura Rotter: That's very exciting. Thank you for sharing that. And I will echo everything you've just said as I've gotten older, I've recognized how. lucky I am to be healthy, how lucky I am to have close family and community, and really interesting, challenging work and lovely clients, which I'm happy to get to choose.
And I'm happy to be in a position to constantly be meeting new people. And so it has put me in touch with you, Carolyn. I've so enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for agreeing to be my guest.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Carolyn Dow. Some of my takeaways are just go for it and then you'll figure out how to do it. Carolyn shared a story of agreeing to cater an event when she just started out. That seemed like it was going to be way too big for her company. She followed her mother's advice to go for it. And the event was much more manageable than she had anticipated. And she ended up working with the client, one of her biggest accounts for twenty years.
My second takeaway, consider the skills you've used in a previous career. When searching for a new role, Carolyn had run her own catering company for twenty-five years before transitioning to a new role with a professional organizing and move management company. She knew that she had strong administrative skills. and that she thrives on interactions and relationships. She also knew that she would not enjoy being behind a computer all day. She needed to be working with a team at a job.
Finally, always be learning. After her long career as a caterer, Carolyn was ready for a new challenge. Her new role requires her to learn new things, including how to use new technology. She's thankful to work with a supportive team that enables her to grow without stress.
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Thanks for listening to making change with your money certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify and invest their money in order to support a life of purpose and meaning. Go to www. trueabundanceadvisors. com forward slash workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.