A conversation with Hannah Starobin, psychotherapist and podcast host. Hannah "twisted her plot" earlier in her life, when she pivoted from working in theater, both on and off Broadway, to receiving her Masters in Social Work from Fordham University.
Hannah Starobin encourages every woman to reinvent life after 50. She is a licensed psychotherapist, in practice in New York City, and the Co-Founder of Twisting the Plot: Solutions for Women Over 50. In her co-hosted podcast, she speaks with women who have twisted their plots and discovered that life after 50 can be filled with imagination, inspiration, laughter and endless possibilities.
Hannah shared that she grew up loving movies and the theater. She had done some theater and summer stock in high school, but it wasn't until her father signed her up for a theater course that she discovered that theater was her passion. She loved the creative part, but especially the collaboration. As she described it, watching people tell a story and experiencing that together is an extraordinary experience.
Hannah ultimately left the theater world to become a stay at home mom. She found herself drawn to social work, after volunteering at a day program on the Upper West Side. It was creative and fast paced, just like theater work. She called her husband after the first day and said, "I'm gonna be fine. This is like every off Broadway theater I ever worked in!" She went back to school, and got her Masters in Social Work.
Hannah noted that it was also important to her to have a career of her own, unlike her mother who lived in her father's shadow. When the pandemic hit, it turned out to be very lucky that she was no longer involved in the theater industry. Both her husband and her son, who do have careers in the industry, had very little work when the theaters shut down.
"Everybody has a story. Everybody has something wise to say. We have a lot to offer, but we often lack the, and I think this is changing, but we often lack the confidence to know that we can do something big at this stage in our lives." - Hannah Starobin
Key takeaways:
- Notice the parallels between what you love to do and professions you might consider. Hannah had worked in the theater for many years and notied the parallels between the theater work and working with psychotic patients. In her own words, working with difficult patients requires creativity, since no one knows exactly what to do, and it’s equally fast paced. She feels that approaching her work as an artist, and not solely as a clinician, has been immensely valuable.
- Know that you have something valuable to offer and that you bring a unique perspective to everything you do. Women over 50 don’t have very many role models out there to help us realize that we can do something big at this stage of our lives. Through her podcast, Twisting the Plot, Hannah has met many active, interesting, curious women out there who have a lot left to do and a lot left to give. And the podcast itself was a challenge and ultimately a vehicle for personal growth for Hannah and her co-host Cecilia!
- Surround yourself with people who support and encourage you. Find people who are there for you and inspire you because it’s hard to do this reinvention work alone. Hannah feels lucky to have her friend Cecilia, who she has known since her theater days, to travel this path with.
About the guest:
Hannah Starobin is a licensed psychotherapist in practice in New York City and the Co-Founder of Twisting the Plot: Solutions for Women Over 50. She is also the co-host and producer of Twisting the Plot podcast where each week she and her co-host Dr. Cecilia Dintino speak with women who have twisted their plots and discovered that life after 50 can be filled with imagination, inspiration, laughter and endless possibilities. Hannah has a Masters in Social Work from Fordham University and a Certificate in Positive Psychology from The Flourishing Center
Website :-https://www.hannahstarobin.com
Twitter:- @HannahMStarobin
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Hannah Starobin: Everybody has a story. Everybody has something wise to say that we have a lot to offer. But that we often lack the, and I think this is changing, but we often lack the confidence to know that we can do something big at this stage in our lives.
Welcome to Making Change With Your Money, a podcast that highlights the stories and strategies of women who experienced a big life transition and overcame challenges as they redefined financial success for themselves. Now here's your host, certified financial planner, Laura Rotter.
Laura Rotter: I am so excited to have as my guest today, Hannah Starobin. Hannah is a licensed psychotherapist. She's in practice in New York City, and she's also the co-host and producer of the Twisting the Plot podcast, where each week she and her co-hosts speak with women who have twisted their plots and discovered that life after 50 can be filled with imagination, inspiration, laughter, and endless possibilities. And Hannah herself twisted her plot earlier when she pivoted from working in theater, both on and off Broadway, to receiving her masters in social work from Fordham University. So welcome Hannah to the Making Change With Your Money Podcast.
Hannah Starobin: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Laura Rotter: My pleasure. So I'm gonna start with the question I've been starting all my podcasts with, which is Hannah. What was money like in your family growing up?
Hannah Starobin: That's a loaded question. Um, money was complicated. My parents were both depression children, so my mother grew up pretty poor, but surviving in Kentucky. So her father was a baker. She and her parents had not, I when went to third, got to third grade one, got to fourth g rade. So, but he was a terrific baker and it was in a little town in Kentucky and I'm so, she was careful and frugal as most people who grew up during the pandemic, I mean during the depression were, my father grew up very.
Father was a, uh, not terribly successful salesman. So, uh, money was a huge issue for him as a child. He was often sent to the landlord to beg for more time as a little kid and started supporting his parents by the time he was 12. Um, so he, um, money was complicated, but. He was successful and as a writer and a college professor.
So it wasn't that it, money was scary to us in a sense, but we were very much aware of the importance of saving and being careful with it. That was definitely a message we got loud and clear.
Laura Rotter: Thank you. And Hannah, did you grow up? Because you mentioned Kentucky and your father being a college professor , so depends where he gets a position.
Hannah Starobin: Right. He, well, he actually was a writer and a journalist and he had, um, worked for Time Magazine and we lived in New Jersey for when I was born. And then he got tired of freelancing and he got offered to start the journalism program at the University of New Hampshire.
So when I was four, we moved to New Hampshire and he started the journalism program there. He continued to write, in fact, he had a column in the Boston Globe until the end of his life. And so he was both a writer and a teacher. He had a lot of, wore a lot of hats, so,
Laura Rotter: Oh, thank you for sharing that. So the first thing I know about you is that you had an interest in theater. Where did that come about?
Hannah Starobin: Yeah, you know, boy, if I really think about it, I was always interested in story. I don't think I recognize that till much later, but I think that was the part of it. I loved the movies. I loved the theater When I got to go to, you know, productions at the college and it was really, uh, it, I did some, I did some theater in high school and I did some summer stock in coll in high school, and it was until in Coll high School.
And then my, uh, twists and turns. My middle sister passed away between my graduating high school and started college and in the summer. And so my father signed me up for a theater course to which I was furious at him. How dare you decide that I'm taking a theater course? Of course, I didn't drop it and I took one class and I had declared my major by three months and was off and running and just found my passion. I found the thing that I loved. I love the collaboration. I love the creative part. I love the theater. I think there's something magical about a group of people a n audience, watching people tell a story and experiencing that together, I think that's a, an extraordinary experience.
There's some research that shows that, um, people's heartbeats start to match, um, when they're sitting together. I just think it's magical and I, and I love the storytelling and so, um, I came to New York and wanted to direct, which no women were directing in my day. Sad to admit. Um, still not great either.
They're not enough of them, and so they'd always offer me different jobs. I got, I did a lot of costume work because that was something that I could get and could pay my bills with, but I was very fortunate. I got to work in a lot of, I worked for the public theater for a long time. I worked on Broadway. I, um, loved being in a theater.
There's the dirty, dark space and smells and I don't know, there's something about being in a theater that I love, so. I loved it, but it wasn't, it didn't transition well with me when I had a family, so, you know, that was the time to switch gears again.
Laura Rotter: Thank you. So Hannah, I know you mentioned briefly, I'm sorry to hear about your sister's death. Was, did the theater represent a way of sort of having in that place to escape to I, I'm not, you know, wasn't sure the segue of your father. Suggesting the theater?
Hannah Starobin: Yeah. I think he thought he saw something that I wasn't a terribly good student. Let's be clear. I didn't do well in high school. Okay. I'll be honest, I was terrible student in high school.
Um, I had a lot of fun, but I didn't do well academically. And I think it was more that my father saw something that, a passion in me, and so that's what he was doing. Do I think it, you know, I've never thought about it that way, but maybe there was some escapist aspect. I definitely think there was community, which I desperately needed to feel part of Something I have found Cecilia and I met there who's my partner in twisting the plot, and I found lifelong friends to this day that I spend time with in my theater department, a large group of friends, um, a huge community that I still stay connected with 45 years later.
So I've never regretted that at all, but, You know, it was such a weird transition. You know, I went from this like small town and very tight, you know, I went to elementary school through high school with the same a hundred kids in my class. I mean, it was a very, you know, and they're all faculty brats, so you know, everybody it was never like, what does your dad do? It's like what department? Oh, entomology. Okay. English, you know, you know, that's all we knew. And so to this environment where it was also a very small community of people that I felt very connected to, and I think that was a great holding space for me while I was grieving, they didn't all know that, at least I don't remember telling everyone, but um, I was in such a weird space in my own head, so it was a very nurturing environment for me, for sure.
Laura Rotter: How beautiful and how beautiful that your father really saw you as your experience, that he could see that it was a passion of yours and something when you, Hannah, don't seem to have even recognized that yourself. You're like, oh my God, what theater class?
Hannah Starobin: Yeah, I thought it was fun, but I didn't know. I was like, whatever. You know, I really wasn't very good academically. I had lots of experiences that led to that, but I think it, it, you know, I didn't feel like I had anything to offer academically, and that was why this, um, felt like a place that I could be. You know, use a different part of me. So, yeah.
Laura Rotter: So what parts of you do you think you were using as you then think about the, the, the decision to then leave the theater?
Hannah Starobin: To leave the theater? Well, the theater was a practicality issue that, first of all, I loved working in a theater. I didn't love the jobs I had in the theater. I mean, it was okay, but it wasn't where I wasn't passionate about, I wasn't a costume person. I didn't really, I love clothing, but I didn't really, you know, I wasn't a designer.
And, and so it was a little frustrating that I wasn't getting to do what I want. My husband works in the business, that's how we met. He's an orchestrator arranger. And we met playing poker backstage. So it was La Boehme with Linda Ronstadt as, um, Mimi. It was, yeah, it was interesting experience and, um, at the public.
And so we met there. We, when we started to have a family, his career, which was really established, was a lot of travel in those days. I mean, less so now because of, you know, in the last. 20 years cuz of internet stuff, it's much easier. But in those days it was a lot of travel and it just didn't, we couldn't figure out how it was gonna work, you know, at, at least for us.
And, um, so I stopped, I was a stay-at-home mom for almost 10 years. Part of that I went going back to school to get my master's, but it was hard to leave. But it was also, I wasn't leaving what I. Well, what I loved, I still get, you know, I get to go to the theater with him. I get to hang out with him. My son now works in the theater, so I get my my your jolly experience, so Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. I get to hang out, you know, be a groupie, kind of, you know.
Laura Rotter: So any more poker games backstage.
Hannah Starobin: Exactly. Not that, but you know.
Laura Rotter: Well, what drew you to social work?
Hannah Starobin: Oh, it's always an interesting, I tell us all the time to clients that I. I took a photography class and, uh, cuz I had time and I'd always been interested in photography and I was, didn't know anything about it and so I thought, oh, I'll take a class. And it was pretty good. My interest was abstracts another good financial career, abstract photography. There's a big call for that. Um, and I remember thinking, I, that doesn't make sense. I've done one of those. I've done a, I've done a creative career that has no path and I wasn't, I just didn't wanna do it again right then.
So, but it opened, the, the reason I tell that is it kind of opened the window. It let me say, oh, I could do lots of things. I had never considered that I could do other things. It was like the theater or what, and suddenly I went like, well, there's lots of things I could do and, and I was interested. I had been in therapy, I was interested in therapy. To some extent. And then, um, a friend said, why don't you volunteer somewhere? And I volunteered for a program on the Upper West Side called the other Place. It was part of the Goddard Riverside system. They would take clients from the parks and the street and get them into treatment. And this was the day program that they would spend their day at.
And the first day I walked in and they introduced me and the people, you know, said, go mingle. And so it was a room full of psychotic people all sitting by themselves. And I was like, okay, hi. You know, it was really painful. But by lunchtime I called my husband and I said, oh, I'm gonna be fine. This is like every off Broadway theater ever worked in.
They have no money, they're all crazy. It's like, it's fine. I'm gonna be good. And I started applying to schools. Almost within weeks. And then I decided that's what I wanted to do very quickly it was clear to me, it's kind of like the theater. It was the same way it was that like, oh, I know this and this is, and what I realized later, you know, now I wasn't as conscious of this, but when I did my second year of placement, which you do as a master's student, was in working for Cornell and White Plains and was an inpatient psychotic disorders unit, and I thought, Oh, I get this.
It's small compact. It's repetitive, it's creative cuz nobody knows what to do cuz it's really, these are the hardest to treat people. It was like fast paced and, and I thought, I get this. It's like working in a theater. It's the same sort of, it's environment in a completely different way. And I thought, oh, I fit right in here.
I know this world. You know, and that's what I found was sort of the, I wanted something creative for sure.
Laura Rotter: So interesting that, you know, thinking. Of how we all see different things when we're in, could be in the same environment. I actually taught yoga in an inpatient unit at Cornell in White Plains.
Hannah Starobin: Oh really?
Laura Rotter: Of course, I'm there for one specific reason, so you know, it's interesting population to say the least. Like no one could sit still on the yoga mat. Everyone's walking around. I'm sure my experience was not like, Ooh, this'll be creative. It was, uh, it was, it was, it was interesting to say the least. To have to be right. Led into the ward and let outta the ward.
Hannah Starobin: Yeah. Well, I always have thought that, you know, I, and I, I really believe this, that all the kind of experiences you have get woven together to, into something. But in that place, I found that what I brought to it, my personal thing that I brought was that was my theater brain.
So, for example, I, my specialty was working with really thought disordered clients who ha uh, couldn't. Articulate clearly almost anything. I have one of my first patients I'd say, you know, did you take a shower this morning? He'd say, boat Friday, Wednesday. You know, I don't know what to do with that. Um, you know, and I learned to listen thematically to him and to teach him.
And I ultimately taught him one, how to communicate, found out where his brain was intact, and how to teach others how to communicate with him. And he'd spent 20 years in the hospital with nobody knowing what he needed. He couldn't articulate anything and and so it was this ability for me to, I just listened thematically.
I listened like an artist, not like a clinician in those moments. And I think that helped me find him in a way that, and he used to run up and down the halls on the weekends looking for me because I was the only person who could understand him and I'd say, try this. Did you mean that? And, and I could get, we got, so we could kind of, I always describe it and I'm very gestering today.
I don't know, I always described it like this, you know, that I was kind of like the bumpers in, in the bowling alley, keeping him in place and I could help him get to where he needed to go. And so, but, so I think all of it to say that, that all of our experiences bring something to. What we do. I'm sure your yoga experiences bring something to what you're doing now.
In other words, do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Laura Rotter: That is so beautiful, and I love the idea of one of your skills being listening thematically, I don't wanna assume, but Hannah, even from this brief period of time, you've mentioned community, you've mentioned friends that made suggestions. What role does your love of friendships, and perhaps I'm gonna throw in compassion or love of people as played on, on this journey.
Hannah Starobin: I think it is a big part of who I am. I'm not sure where, you know, my father used to say my, my mother was, um, warm as could be, but very dry person, dry sense of humor, and a little guarded. Whereas my father was, you know, he was a reporter. He could talk to a rock, you know, and I always say, you know, I, you know, everywhere we went, he. He talked to somebody and he learned something and I watched him and I, and I'm similar in that sense. I can talk to anybody. And so I do think that I need connection the way my father needed connection. My mother was a little, and my sister, older sister were, were much more reclusive a little way. Uh, they didn't need as much social connection as I do, and he, he did. It is important to me to be part of. I also am. Need my quiet time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not somebody who's social all the time.
I do have a, like a private world where I'm quiet and where I write and my own space, but I, but I do, I'm curious about people. I like people, you know nosy could do it that way.
Laura Rotter: I would like to say they're not one and the same as someone who is curious about people, but, and I think, you know, and I'm sure you are working with patients, you recognize the boundaries, though.
It's interesting, right? In my world, I'm allowed to ask nosy questions about money. And in your world, you're allowed to ask other kinds of…
Hannah Starobin: All kinds of nosy questions. Yeah.
Laura Rotter: Yeah. Um, you described growing up a child of depression parents, and you, you sort of hinted at money playing some role in your decision making. What role did it play at all? You said you didn't wanna. Have another creative career that had No…
Hannah Starobin: Okay. Yes. Okay. The, yeah, to be honest, um, my husband's work in the theater. I mean, he has a fabulous career, but it ebbs and flows financially as all careers in the theater. You know, people, I say, oh, they make so much money.
I'm like, uh, when they're working, You know, and, and it was, it was a decision also in my case to say, look, I, you know, sometimes I hear, you know, women sometimes feel, maybe you find this, that women who don't work feel like the only way they can make money is to save money, is to deny themselves. Sometimes that's way people go is to like, get really small because they can't, they don't know how to.
Break out of that and make money. And I just decided that I couldn't stand the, not that I couldn't, I'm, my mother did that and I could do that, but I decided, and I could live in the shadow of my husband's career the way my mother did in my father's career, and that's a whole nother sidetrack. But, and I decided no, I needed a career of my own and I needed to make money.
And I needed to contribute to the family for my own sense of peace and wellbeing. Because of that depression background. The idea of not earning money got really painful after a while and not feeling that I could have some control. Not that we don't work together, my husband and I, but just felt like, you know, I don't know how to do this.
So it was a decision that also was something that would be, would make money now come full circle to the pandemic. My husband did not work and one day for two years. And thank God I had a different career. You know, my son also works in the business. He didn't work for almost, he got one little window of work and that was it for the whole pandemic almost.
So the theater shut down. And so it was a good thing that I had a different career. We've said thanked, you know, kiss the ground many times that, that I had that, you know, right.
Laura Rotter: Without it even really being intentionally planned. But thank you for sharing that. You asked me if I, you know, knew the personality of, of women who feel like they wanna save.
If they don't have a career, you've had a number of years now with your co-host of speaking to women like our listeners today, 50 years old who are or older who are facing a life transition. What can you share that, what you've, I'm sure you've learned a lot, but some of the things that come up.
Hannah Starobin: I think one of the big thing is, um, everybody has a story.
Everybody has something wise to say that we have a lot to offer. But that we often lack the, and I think this is changing, but we often lack the confidence to know that we can do something big at this stage in our lives instead of feeling like we can't, you know, it's, there's a lot of ageism that we struggle with a lot of, you know, remnants of our, our mothers in, in many cases.
I mean, we are, you know, we are in a totally different territory than our mothers, or at least my mother was in terms of what we thought we were capable of doing and we thought was possible to do. And I, so we don't really, you know, one of the things when we started out was like, we don't have role models because the role models that were you know, our parents, our grandparents didn't work and didn't have this issue and didn't want it, didn't have the opportunity. So it's like, is that the role model? I don't know. But I think finding that there's a lot of really interesting, curious, active women out there who have a lot left to do and a lot left to give.
And they don't have to, there's no, I'm not prescriptive about that, but if you want to, there's a lot you can do.
Laura Rotter: As a woman who has and continues to do a lot, I've, so a pattern I've seen, we haven't touched about this. It's true in my life and with some of the women I've interviewed, I grew up in a family, my mother did work, actually, she was of course a nursery school teacher and ultimately administrator. So she was home on time for when we got off the bus. I grew up with one sister, no brothers, and. So frankly, until I married into another family, like I wasn't expected to cook. I wasn't expected because we were the kids.
It wasn't like, you know, so I went to the football game with my dad and I never questioned that. Anything that I'm drawn to do I can do. How do you think, you mentioned you have. You know, you ultimately grew up with one sister. Did you have that kind of experience that, you know, you might have been one of the guys?
Hannah Starobin: Yeah, I mean, I, I don't, my father was very liberal and both my parents were, but my father was, you know, he had all girls, so he was, and so I never felt sort of that patriarchal household. My mother would never have tolerated that for a hot minute. But my mother was also, Stayed. She worked until she got married.
And she got married a little bit later. She had me at 40. My ready for this. My grandmother had her at late. So my grandmother was born in 1886. And my mother was born in 1919. Check that out, you know, at the, um, so I had older parents in that sense in some ways, but my mother was incredibly accomplished as a homemaker.
Laura Rotter: Wow.
Hannah Starobin: Um, she cooked and she canned and she gardened and she, I didn't have my sister and I, I, I think all felt that we, you know, I had two sisters, but my oldest sister who survived. We, we had, we felt we could do things. It wasn't that we felt we couldn't, but we were on the tail end of that era of stay, you know, the fifties we're in that funny, weird space, you know, between the fifties and the seventies, I feel like is a strange space to be, you know, the messages that we got were so confusing.
It was, you know, father knows best and then Hair, you know what I mean? We were kind of caught between like that weird space, but I, I don't think it's that. The message wasn't that you can't, and, and I was one who did all of it. I went to the football games and did all those things, but I also admired my mother's kind of ability to, you know, bake and do things and, and I got kind of a, a bridge of both things.
I say all this to say that only recently did I find a box of papers, my mother's personal correspondence, and find that she was submitting stories to my father's agent to be published and had some things published that I never knew about, Which, heartbreaking, it was all private. It was all underground, you know, it's like, so, you know, it speaks to that era like, where do you, you know,
Laura Rotter: That's very true. So now the women that you interview, I mean the wonderful thing about aging, which is why I love this particular cohort of women, 50, it can, on the one hand feel like, why try? Like now I'm just gonna, you know, watch my children and what happens to them or. I can do anything I want to. Like what's the worst thing that can happen? I'll fail.
Hannah Starobin: Exactly. It is an opportunity. I mean, like when, Cecilia and I started the podcast, oh my God, it was bad, by the way. Um, but it was nerve wracking. And, and yet I was like, but who really cares? I mean, worst case scenario, nobody listened. I mean, okay, you know, we'll figure it out. You know? Now I can't say I was that blasé about it.
I was really nervous wreck trying to do it, but it's. You know, it's been exciting to see and try things and meet people who are trying to do things and, and want to do things and are accomplishing a lot and being seen and heard. And my mother would never have dreamed of that at that stage in her life.
You know, she just couldn't have imagined. And my grandmother, I always think my, you know, which was so sad. My grandmother had surgery when she was probably about my age, so I'm 63, and they were debating whether to. They had, she had, she lost a kidney and they were debating whether she was gonna live long enough to bother to take her treatment.
She lived another 34 years, she was almost a hundred when she died. And, and I was like, but she did an whole thing. I mean, she stayed home and watched tv. And lived with her sister and that's what she did for the last 30 years of her life, which I'm like, ah, that's depressing. You know? You know. But she didn't know what else to do. I don't think.
Laura Rotter: So we both acknowledged, right? The this paradox, which is I. Especially women are often perfectionists. And so if we wanna try something new, we wanna do it right and we wanna make sure we've researched everything and we've dotted each I and cross each T. And on the other hand, we have no guarantees in life, right?
We may both live, I'm also 63. We may both live another 34 years and we may not. And so, What advice would you give to women who may be listening? Who would like to take a leap, but. Or scared or aren't sure what, what advice have you gotten from friends or that you feel like you might have?
Hannah Starobin: I think one of the advice is to surround yourself with people who support you, who encourage you. I think one of the things that entrepreneurship does, and I used to say this all the time, is to find a cohort of people who, they don't have to do the same thing you do, but so that when you have those moments of questioning or insecurity or. You know, whatever. There's somebody who goes, no, you are on it. You've got a good idea. Keep going. I liked this. Have you followed up on that? And Cecilia and I as a partnership had that, and we were really lucky because. I gotta tell you, not every day were we both positive thinking good thoughts, you know, no, there were days. The bad days are when you're both thinking, how's this going?
It it, it's that you want people who go, no, I, I believe in you. I wanna see what, you know, have, ask the question or keep you inspired. Because it's hard to sustain that alone. And I think, but people get shy about telling somebody else. And I think it's finding people, you know, like Nancy introducing us.
It's finding people who say, oh, you know, I think you should talk to, and you know, finding that those people who can help connect you with other like-minded or, or at least questioning people who, who are excited to do something, who see the potential in, in throwing yourself. And also I'm like, what do you got to lose?
You know what I mean? Like I said, no, it's worst case scenario, nobody listens. Okay. You know? We got one bad review on, on, uh, that we laughed too much and we were like, all right, that's such a bad thing, but whatever, you know?
Laura Rotter: So I hear from you, Hannah, a recurring theme of community and friendship and people.
I do also wanna note, cuz it came up in my head an article that was in the Wall Street Journal recently. So again, we are addressing a certain population of women, 50. But frankly as we live longer, as long as your, you know, grandmother lived and more. This idea that we're on a straight path, that you graduate from college at 20 something and then you're just going up a ramp towards Nirvana at the age of 70 when you're suddenly retired. Like that's bullshit. Excuse me. Like it doesn't exist.
Hannah Starobin: Total bullshit. First of all, it's unrealistic, you know? It's like you said, you know, like we hopefully have this much time. All we ever have is today. You know, and it was the same when we were 12 or now. There's no guarantees that we have another day, and so it, it is to make the most of what we have, but the idea that there's like this trajectory and I'm somebody who's changed careers, you know, like I've done a lot of left turns and, and that's okay.
You know, that it doesn't have to be a straight line to anything and that we all bring our unique experiences to whatever we do. And everybody's is different. No. Even if you have the same job in the same neighborhood, you have different parents, you have different experiences, you have different partnerships, you have different relationships.
It all changes how we see what we do, and it's like bring that uniqueness to whatever you're doing. You know…
Laura Rotter: As we're getting towards the end of our conversation. I am wondering how you might have defined success when you were younger and how through this meandering, many left turns. As you said, Hannah, this definition have shifted and may I say may continue to shift.
Hannah Starobin: Yeah, it's interesting. Well, Cecilia and I are changing the, the podcast is shifting its focus a little bit, which has a lot to do partly with what you're talking about and, and I think for us, we're changing. We're, you know, we're coming out of our fifties and we're in mid midway through our sixties and we're starting to go.
Things are changing again. What's important and what, what do we value? And one of the things is this idea of that external success, that idea of some sort of societal version of us being successful. And that seems to be shifting for both of us. Where, where our priorities are, what's important. I shouldn't speak for seal cause she's not here, but that's okay.
I know for me it has shifted a lot. In, in the last couple years in terms of chasing something, chasing some sort of recognition. I kind of don't, I'm not that interested anymore. I'm like, I wanna do the work. I wanna do the work that feels important to me. My work as a therapist, my, um, I'm finishing a memoir with my dad.
I'm, I'm like, that feels important to me to, to, to do that work and to explore that. And so, Hopefully it'll get published, but, but it isn't, the goal isn't to get published, in other words, you know what I mean? And there were another time in my life I think it would've been to get, to prove I have a book.
You know, I've, I have, I'll have a book. Whether it gets published or not is another question, but that seems to be less the important part. That makes sense.
Laura Rotter: When did you say that shift took place? And, you know, I'm, I'm curious, you said you're also changing the podcast and how does that fit in?
Hannah Starobin: I think it isn't, well, what it is, is it's not the, in the podcast, it's less just women over 50, as much as it is about twisting plots and it's, and so it is about it.
It's more that I think it, it's a little more expansive and a little more, we found that we were in these communities talking about over 50, and nobody wanted to talk about beyond that. And we were going, yeah, but we're pushing the envelope towards the next stage and nobody wants to talk about what's after.
Nobody wanted, when we started it, nobody wanted to talk about over 50. They said, say 40, don't say 50 now. Nobody wants to talk about 60, 70, 80. And we're sort of going like, well, that's where I'm going. I hope. So what do I want in that next stage of life? How do, how do I wanna perceive it? And it's changing with importance.
It's, it's, I always say my parents got quieter, and I always thought it was because they were fading, but in reality, I think they were listening more and they were talking less, for example. You know? And so I think it's that piece. It's like, huh. I wanna, it's not like I wanna be, I don't wanna fade away or disappear, but I wanna be really intentional about where I put my energy and my efforts.
Laura Rotter: It makes so much sense. I often think about our three scarce resources of cost money, but time and energy. Energy is just a scarce resource and, um, in our very productivity oriented society where it's like, get the next thing done and the next thing done, and. And as we grow in wisdom, that that does fade in importance.
Hannah Starobin: Yeah. And I, you know, and look, I have to, I have to acknowledge that I have enormous amounts of privilege to be having that conversation with myself, that I am somebody who can, you know, look, I'm still working. It's not like I can walk away, but, but that, that's a privilege that a lot of people don't have to be able to explore this time of life and not just survive. And I'm aware of that. You know, acknowledge that. That's, uh, something I've been very fortunate to have. So, yeah.
Laura Rotter: So, Hannah, as, as our conversation comes to an end, if our listeners wanna get in touch with you, learn about your podcast, um, how would you suggest they do that?
Hannah Starobin: Well, the podcast is called Twisting the Plot.
And if you put it on whatever platform, you listen to podcasts you can find it. Our website is twistingtheplot.com and I also, you can reach me through my website at Hannah Sterban. Um, it's, oh, now I forget. I have to look it up. I don't use my website, so forget my website. It will be in the show. Just forget it.
You know, you can tell it's like a placeholder. Um, But, um, you can find me through, I am on, um, Instagram and Facebook, and I'll put, I'll give, we'll give an email if people wants to reach out.
Laura Rotter: Okay. And you do individual psychotherapy in addition? I do to, I do working with institutions.
Hannah Starobin: I don't, I don't work institutionally anymore now.
Laura Rotter: Ah…
Hannah Starobin: I, I left that when I went into private practice, so I haven't, I worked there from, I left there, I dunno, 12 years ago, something like that.
Laura Rotter: Ah, so again, continue to twist the thought.
Hannah Starobin: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Laura Rotter: Well, it was a pleasure to get to know you better, Hannah, thank you so much for being a guest on my podcast.
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Hannah Starobin, a psychotherapist and co-host of the podcast, Twisting the Plot, and I'm gonna share some of my takeaways.
My first takeaway is to notice the parallels. Between what you love to do and professions you might consider. Hannah had worked in the theater for many years and noted the parallels between the theater work and working with psychotic patients.
In her words, working with difficult patients requires creativity. Since no one knows exactly what to do and it's equally fast paced, she feels that approaching her work as an artist and not solely as a clinician has been immensely valuable.
My second takeaway. Know that you have something valuable to offer and that you bring a unique perspective to everything you do. Women over 50 do not have very many role models out there to help us realize that we can still do something big at this stage in our lives. Through her podcast Twisting The Plot, Hannah has met many active, interesting, curious women out there who have a lot left to do and a lot left to give, and the podcast itself was a challenge and ultimately a vehicle for personal growth for Hannah and her co-host Cecilia,
And finally, surround yourself with people who support you and encourage you. Find people who are there for you and inspire you because it's so hard to do this reinvention work alone. Hannah feels lucky to have her friend Cecilia who has known her since her theater days to travel this path with.
Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to subscribe, so you won't miss next week's episode. And if you love the show, a rating and a review would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening to Making Change with your Money certified financial planner, Laura Rotter specializes in helping people just like you organized, clarify, and invest their money. In order to support a life of purpose and meaning, go to www.trueabundanceadvisors.com/workbook for a free resource to help you on your journey.
Disclaimer, please remember that the information shared by this podcast does not constitute accounting, legal, tax, investment, or financial advice. It's for information purposes only. You should seek appropriate professional advice for your specific information.